Who the eff cares? Worthless, navel-gazing debate that goes in circles century after century. You should maybe be more concerned about the collapsing Church attendance. Or the fact that Gen-Z and Gen Alpha are functionally illiterate and cannot read or understand the Bible. Or the fact that Christianity is under attack all over the world. But no, you feel free to "dunk" on another group of Christians. Pathetic.
It is interesting to me that someone has gone through great lengths to make this video in which they're trying to make an argument by using lofty speech that in the end, it truly amounts to nothing. If you truly pay attention to their definition of will, it is exactly what Armenians define as will. I am not sure if when they were making the video they realized they were saying that Armenians think of will as an outside influence on which they have no power over, and then make it sound like "their" correct definition of will is in the mind after you have considered something to be worthy, pleasing, good, beneficial, etc. That is exactly what Armenias are saying. In this video, what they are trying to do is just sound smart and logical while they are twisting definitions so as to make it look like the other side is wrong. There's no new information or revelation in this video. I was hoping for a really good argument, and I was truly disappointed with the outcome. I hope and pray these people truly focus on sound theology instead of misleading people with "lofty" arguments that might be meant to persuade those who sadly have and are not studying the word, seeking God's wisdom, and humbly exploring the nature and character of God.
1. The Deterministic Premise Under exhaustive divine determinism, every mental state — every belief and perception — is directly and infallibly decreed by God. There are no “undetermined” acts of cognition. All mental errors are determined.
2. The Infallibility Constraint If the decree is infallible, then what is decreed must occur exactly as decreed. That means a person’s false belief is as fixed as any true belief, and the mind cannot deviate from that decree to “discover” the falsity of a given belief.
3. The Epistemic Consequence If the decree governs both False beliefs and perceptions as well as True beliefs and perceptions then the human mind’s belief-forming process cannot reliably discriminate truth from falsehood on the basis of its internal cognitive faculties, because whether it recognizes something as true or false is itself determined independently of truth-value.
The human mind is not granted the epistemic capacity to independently assess the truth-value of its perceptions – because all cognitive states, including the ability to evaluate perceptions, are subject to a divine decree.
4. The Result: Epistemic Defeat If your cognitive states are wholly determined by decree, you cannot know whether any given belief is true — because: – You have no independent epistemic check (reason, evidence, introspection) that isn’t itself determined. – Any “sense of certainty” could just as well be decreed false as decreed true.
16:16 You state that "The will is your strongest inclination expressed in a choice"… I fundamentally disagree that this is the definition of will. I do not always choose to do that which I am most inclined to do, that's what separates me from the animals.
I cannot help but believe that it is a wonderful thing that "God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise" (1 Corinthians 1:27).
The biggest reason to Not believe calvinism is there are So Many cases in Scripture where God & Jesus tell us to Choose Them & Their Way & Not Choose the World or ourselves! As always, that is Not to say we can do it alone or that we are the primary party involved, it is Not to say that He does Not have to draw us first, convict us, even change us, just that we Do have a part in it, because that is the Way that God Designed it. Drawing us is Not the Completion of Salvation, just the First Step. He can even raise dead bones but Not Save the Soul if He wishes. Salvation of the soul is another matter! He can open your eyes, ears, heart & mind to His Truth without Saving uour soul if He wants to. You still have to.Believe on Him & Trust Him for Salvation. Even when He gives you Faith, you still have to place that faith in Him the o actually get Saved! His prescient knowledge of who would Believe & follow Him upon His Calling is How He knows who He would Choose from the foundation of the world. That is how He can say that you were Chosen & Saved from the Foundation of the world, because He knows the past, present, future & All things from the Alpha to the Omega! You will likely deny this & argue against it. Deny it if you wish. I don't care about majority or minority status! The Truth is Indeed what matters! It is undeniable that Scripture instructs us to Choose God! It doesn't matter how you want to twist it! Gods Sovereignty does Not mean He controls Everything, even though He could! He does Not make us sin, so He does Not control Everything. If He did, there would be No sin & All people would be Saved because He is Not willing that Any should Perish! That isn't meant to exalt man above God, only to recognize how God designed Salvation, Not you or me or calvin!
According to calvinism, even the Elect did not choose or have a choice in salvation so why do some of your phrases act like they deserve credit? They were Chosen before they did anything good or bad. They were Chosen & could have done or believed Anything according to you, good or bad, & they would still be Saved! You make it sound as though God's Choices are what is Arbitrary! Something without reason or basis! That's the Definition of Arbitrary! All of mankind is bent toward Evil, even those who are Saved, until they are Saved. If God can change them, why doesn't He change All of them, since He is Not willing that Any should perish? Sorry, your calvinistic reasoning is badly flawed. You just won't admit it, but you deserved a hearing! You had it & you are wrong! God is the Author & Finisher of our Faith & Salvation, but He gave us a part in Choosing to be a part of it!
And this is why Arminians are just as wrong as traditional Calvinists. They're both deterministic theology systems.
Man is sinful and incapable of keeping God's law. Not Unresponsive to God in any positive way it's entirety. Total Depravity as defined by Calvinists, doesn't exist.
Calvinists, please help me. Is this truly an accurate description of the strongest possible argument for predestination? Or is there a more compelling case made by Luther, Augustine, etc.? Thank you!
📖 THE REFORMED SOUL AUDIT → https://edwardsbundle1.bibletruthacademy.com
The question this video is really asking is one most Christians never examine with actual precision: not "do I believe?" but "is what I have genuine?"
Edwards spent his life building the tools to answer it. I put them all in one place.
Who the eff cares? Worthless, navel-gazing debate that goes in circles century after century. You should maybe be more concerned about the collapsing Church attendance. Or the fact that Gen-Z and Gen Alpha are functionally illiterate and cannot read or understand the Bible. Or the fact that Christianity is under attack all over the world. But no, you feel free to "dunk" on another group of Christians. Pathetic.
It is interesting to me that someone has gone through great lengths to make this video in which they're trying to make an argument by using lofty speech that in the end, it truly amounts to nothing. If you truly pay attention to their definition of will, it is exactly what Armenians define as will. I am not sure if when they were making the video they realized they were saying that Armenians think of will as an outside influence on which they have no power over, and then make it sound like "their" correct definition of will is in the mind after you have considered something to be worthy, pleasing, good, beneficial, etc. That is exactly what Armenias are saying. In this video, what they are trying to do is just sound smart and logical while they are twisting definitions so as to make it look like the other side is wrong. There's no new information or revelation in this video. I was hoping for a really good argument, and I was truly disappointed with the outcome. I hope and pray these people truly focus on sound theology instead of misleading people with "lofty" arguments that might be meant to persuade those who sadly have and are not studying the word, seeking God's wisdom, and humbly exploring the nature and character of God.
The comments never disappoint!! Hubris abides!
The unregenerate heart will do anything to twist the truth of Scripture.
It seems to me you are explaining free will and trying to deny that is free will…????
Excellent. Just finished Luther's Bondage of the Will, now I am going to have to read Edwards! Thank You guys!
HOW DETERMINISM DESTROYS ITSELF
1. The Deterministic Premise
Under exhaustive divine determinism, every mental state — every belief and perception — is directly and infallibly decreed by God. There are no “undetermined” acts of cognition. All mental errors are determined.
2. The Infallibility Constraint
If the decree is infallible, then what is decreed must occur exactly as decreed.
That means a person’s false belief is as fixed as any true belief, and the mind cannot deviate from that decree to “discover” the falsity of a given belief.
3. The Epistemic Consequence
If the decree governs both False beliefs and perceptions as well as True beliefs and perceptions then the human mind’s belief-forming process cannot reliably discriminate truth from falsehood on the basis of its internal cognitive faculties, because whether it recognizes something as true or false is itself determined independently of truth-value.
The human mind is not granted the epistemic capacity to independently assess the truth-value of its perceptions – because all cognitive states, including the ability to evaluate perceptions, are subject to a divine decree.
4. The Result: Epistemic Defeat
If your cognitive states are wholly determined by decree, you cannot know whether any given belief is true — because:
– You have no independent epistemic check (reason, evidence, introspection) that isn’t itself determined.
– Any “sense of certainty” could just as well be decreed false as decreed true.
Hey, I really liked this a lot!
AI is taking over
16:16 You state that "The will is your strongest inclination expressed in a choice"… I fundamentally disagree that this is the definition of will. I do not always choose to do that which I am most inclined to do, that's what separates me from the animals.
I cannot help but believe that it is a wonderful thing that "God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise" (1 Corinthians 1:27).
Edwards definition of will is fallacious. Your critique of the Arminian will is also fallacious.
This is such a simplistic argument, it makes me wonder why anyone considers Edwards to be anything special.
The assertion that the will always moves.. Is simply wrong.
Paul also tells his readers to change the focus of their minds.
Calvinist TD is false and therefore this argument is completely abiblical
Does god have free will?
Thank you!! Great
How does this refute the fact that Calvinism is gay?
The biggest reason to Not believe calvinism is there are So Many cases in Scripture where God & Jesus tell us to Choose Them & Their Way & Not Choose the World or ourselves! As always, that is Not to say we can do it alone or that we are the primary party involved, it is Not to say that He does Not have to draw us first, convict us, even change us, just that we Do have a part in it, because that is the Way that God Designed it. Drawing us is Not the Completion of Salvation, just the First Step. He can even raise dead bones but Not Save the Soul if He wishes. Salvation of the soul is another matter! He can open your eyes, ears, heart & mind to His Truth without Saving uour soul if He wants to. You still have to.Believe on Him & Trust Him for Salvation. Even when He gives you Faith, you still have to place that faith in Him the o actually get Saved! His prescient knowledge of who would Believe & follow Him upon His Calling is How He knows who He would Choose from the foundation of the world. That is how He can say that you were Chosen & Saved from the Foundation of the world, because He knows the past, present, future & All things from the Alpha to the Omega! You will likely deny this & argue against it. Deny it if you wish. I don't care about majority or minority status! The Truth is Indeed what matters! It is undeniable that Scripture instructs us to Choose God! It doesn't matter how you want to twist it! Gods Sovereignty does Not mean He controls Everything, even though He could! He does Not make us sin, so He does Not control Everything. If He did, there would be No sin & All people would be Saved because He is Not willing that Any should Perish! That isn't meant to exalt man above God, only to recognize how God designed Salvation, Not you or me or calvin!
According to calvinism, even the Elect did not choose or have a choice in salvation so why do some of your phrases act like they deserve credit? They were Chosen before they did anything good or bad. They were Chosen & could have done or believed Anything according to you, good or bad, & they would still be Saved! You make it sound as though God's Choices are what is Arbitrary! Something without reason or basis! That's the Definition of Arbitrary! All of mankind is bent toward Evil, even those who are Saved, until they are Saved. If God can change them, why doesn't He change All of them, since He is Not willing that Any should perish? Sorry, your calvinistic reasoning is badly flawed. You just won't admit it, but you deserved a hearing! You had it & you are wrong! God is the Author & Finisher of our Faith & Salvation, but He gave us a part in Choosing to be a part of it!
And this is why Arminians are just as wrong as traditional Calvinists. They're both deterministic theology systems.
Man is sinful and incapable of keeping God's law. Not Unresponsive to God in any positive way it's entirety. Total Depravity as defined by Calvinists, doesn't exist.
Glory to Jesus
Calvinists, please help me. Is this truly an accurate description of the strongest possible argument for predestination? Or is there a more compelling case made by Luther, Augustine, etc.? Thank you!