Hi Gavin! Would you ever consider making a video about whether or not the JW view of there being a 1st century Governing Body is a valid one? Been trying to research that but not sure where to start/not finding many thorough resources from Christians on that
32:40 Yes. We must be born again. And we must personally respond to the gospel. This is where Calvinism breaks down, because it would declare that one is already "regenerated" before ones ability to respond by faith. The hearer can reject the gospel, this is their response nonetheless a response and the Holy Spirit has (john 16:8) in all the same ways, but the heart of the hearer has chosen to respond positively, and receive the gift of grace and thus is "warmed". Therefore, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
And it’s hard not to notice the current online scheme of high church traditions, catholic and orthodox really, of recruiting evangelicals through arrogance and insults to attempt to grow their own institutions, not by reaching the lost, but by recruiting people who are already Christians out of evangelical churches.
Thoughtful and encouraging as always. Thank you. I am a Fellow at Lincoln College, Oxford, where Wesley was also a Fellow, and we have those last words of his engraved on the glass door of our chapel: The best of all, God is with us.
Gavin, I can't remember if it was this video but you had mentioned missionaries serving the Scandinavians, even in the face of great risk to themselves. Could you please share any resources you have on these individuals? Thank you kindly.
Such a good question. My friends and I have been leaning into prayer surrounding that question both in a broad sense and for our local church/city. Church of the City (Pastor Jon Tyson in New York) and the Awaken Network (podcast/network around prayer, revival, and seeking the Lord) have been huge influences for us over the past year. It's cool to see you and many churches around the US/world leaning into those themes.
Something I appreciate about you Dr. Ortlund is your restraint while referencing other segments of Christianity. You acknowledge there are some differences in doctrine and tradition, but point to the shared belief that Christ is the narrow road to salvation. That is a wonderful example of how the body of Christ needs to pull together to exemplify God's will here on Earth.
An excellent video, Gavin. One of the things I love about Wesley is that he was profoundly ecumenical and a kind of "Mere" Christian before the term was coined by Lewis. He was a priest in the Church of England, converted under Moravians (who were Lutheran Pietists), friends with a Calvinist separatist, and (allegedly, though this is a matter of debate) had warm relations with the Eastern Church and underwent a kind of ordination/consecration by a bishop named Erasmus. He used the Westminster Catechism to disciple converts, held to a high, though Protestant, view of the sacraments, and was an unapologetic advocate of the New Birth. He was very learned and indeed a "scholar on fire!"
How do you explain the fact that the First Great Awakening in North America did not lead to the abolition of slavery.? Do you think the Second Great Awakening did so even though it stood on shaky theological foundations?
Dr Ortlund, as a Methodist from the British isles, may I say that (to use the Lincolnshire dialect Wesley would have known in his youth) you are ‘nowt but an old Methodie!’ Please pray for the British Methodist church which is in dire straits…
What about a new republic follow up on George Whitefield (the prequel), Francis Ashbury and Frederick Douglas, that would be cool 😎. (PS Lorenzo Dow could get a shout out too 💪)
If you could have a conversation with David N. Hempton (Harvard University Distinguished Service Professor) on Methodism that would be something else. Maybe you and Paul Vanderklay could presuade him to have a conversation with you both.
Wesley felt assurance years after believing the gospel and repenting of his sins. Was he saved before that experience? What if he died before that? How can we reconcile passages like the one that says "those who don't have the Spirit of Christ are not his" with the passage in Acts 8:16. What if one of those who believed the gospel and got baptized died before the apostles got there? Could you make a video about this?
Thank you, a very impressive spot-on message with what you are promoting as needed with today's church. The Holy Spirit has impressed upon me points at times in my life that amount to similar conclusions.
We, who truly love the Lord, must become abolitionists. There’s compromise in the prolife movement. To be holy, when it comes to abortion, is to work for its total and immediate abolition while rejecting legislation and rhetoric that still allows for the murder of babies. And 1000% to street preaching. Let’s all go into the highways and byways with the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the Cure! Glory to His mane.
So refreshing to hear someone with sound doctrine and good theological reasoning not discarding the individual and revivalistic aspect of the Gospel. The Gospel is not just an intellectual matter but more a personal working of God’s spirit in the believers’ heart.
Wonderful story, how God can work through people. I myself had and experience of revival just after knowing the story of John Wesley, it was by far the best day of my life. God bless you Dr. Ortlund
Don't dispute problems of England circa 1700 but … Compared to what? Where was better? Always ask this when passing judgement. Also, the English and later American capacity to improve society is abnormal.
I grew up in the Methodist Church, but now I'm a Minister in a Baptist Church. Here in Leicestershire, England the Methodist revival led to much Baptist Church planting! Converts from Methodist preaching started an independent church, which adopted baptist principles in 1755 – the movement evangelised many villages in the county. In 1770, along with other evangelical baptists, the New Connexion of General Baptists was formed.
Read "George Whitefield: The life and times of the great evangelist of the 18th century revival (vol 1)" by Arnold Dallimore and "Wesley and Men Who Followed" by Iain H. Murray. The comparison of the two men will shock you. Let us take our example from Whitefield the real human impetus behind the Methodist Movement. Wesley's struggle with predestination, justification by faith alone, and christian perfectionism made him a man who was tossed to and fro by every wind and wave of doctrine. For reference, Wesley came to his conclusion to preach against predestination by the casting lots. Not Scripture but by rolling dice… Yes, God used Wesley and for that I'm thankful but I've learned more of what not to do from his life than what to do.
Nevertheless, let us not wrangle over who is more important and let Whitefield have the final word, "I believe the Lord will work a great work upon the earth. Whatever instruments He shall make use of in effecting it, I care not. If Christ be preached, if my dear Lord be glorified, I rejoice, ye, and will rejoice" (Dallimore, Whitefield: The life and times, 392).
Thanks so much for this. Videis like this are why, as a Free Methodist, I reard you as one of my favourite YouTubers. Always Irenic. This is probably one of the best examples of Theological Triage I've seen omn YouTube. Reformed/Calvinist vs Wesleyan/Arminian should only ever be a Levvel 3 debate. Yes, I'll tease my friends on the other side of the theological spectrum but at the end of the day we're all seekin to snatch as many from Hell as we can.
The British TV series, Poldark, is great for learning about 18th Century England and the rise of Methodism (in Cornwall only , but still, it's fun to watch).
Ordained Free Methodist Elder here. What I love about Wesleyan theology at its best is that it’s a convergence theology. Evangelical, Charismatic, and Sacramental. This is beautiful to me. On a secondary note, Wesley’s theology is only a “hair’s breadth” from Calvinist theology. Wesley said so himself
Came super late to the game lol. The fact that John Wesley didn't understand the very concept of gospel in spite of being educated by his parents with Bible since kid until rather late in life shows how terrible the pelagianism/nominalism at the time. I grew up in a society with similar situation (though arguably not as extreme as 18th century England) and it did took such a long time to realize that I'm a sinner who can't save myself. It's just that hard for one to come up and stumble into the right understanding since the gospel is drown out by the false norm that is regurgitated in the society and even 'Christian' communities.
Thank you .Much food for thought . What people in the modern world resonate with .Universally the message of the gospel of Christ and displayed by love .But discerning love . People like music .It is a point of connection .Has the "Christian music industry " lost it's way ? EEK the word "industry " . What about the place of mass media ?
Hi Gavin. Have you ever done a review of the book The Unseen Realm? U
Hi Gavin! Would you ever consider making a video about whether or not the JW view of there being a 1st century Governing Body is a valid one? Been trying to research that but not sure where to start/not finding many thorough resources from Christians on that
Really inspiring video. Makes me want to roll my sleeves up and do something!
Thanks Dr. O. I found this very hopeful and encouraging.
Really encouraging message!
Thank you so much for this video. Very timely for me I appreciate your work so much
32:40 Yes. We must be born again. And we must personally respond to the gospel. This is where Calvinism breaks down, because it would declare that one is already "regenerated" before ones ability to respond by faith.
The hearer can reject the gospel, this is their response nonetheless a response and the Holy Spirit has (john 16:8) in all the same ways, but the heart of the hearer has chosen to respond positively, and receive the gift of grace and thus is "warmed".
Therefore, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
Dr. Ortlund, where did you find that situation with Wesley and the archbishop on the stones crying out?
I was planning on using it as an illustration for my upcoming sermon on Luke 19.
Thanks!
Wonderful! This was so interesting!
And it’s hard not to notice the current online scheme of high church traditions, catholic and orthodox really, of recruiting evangelicals through arrogance and insults to attempt to grow their own institutions, not by reaching the lost, but by recruiting people who are already Christians out of evangelical churches.
Thoughtful and encouraging as always. Thank you. I am a Fellow at Lincoln College, Oxford, where Wesley was also a Fellow, and we have those last words of his engraved on the glass door of our chapel: The best of all, God is with us.
More revival needed!
Gavin, I can't remember if it was this video but you had mentioned missionaries serving the Scandinavians, even in the face of great risk to themselves. Could you please share any resources you have on these individuals? Thank you kindly.
"What would revival look like today?"
Such a good question. My friends and I have been leaning into prayer surrounding that question both in a broad sense and for our local church/city. Church of the City (Pastor Jon Tyson in New York) and the Awaken Network (podcast/network around prayer, revival, and seeking the Lord) have been huge influences for us over the past year. It's cool to see you and many churches around the US/world leaning into those themes.
Come Lord Jesus!
Something I appreciate about you Dr. Ortlund is your restraint while referencing other segments of Christianity. You acknowledge there are some differences in doctrine and tradition, but point to the shared belief that Christ is the narrow road to salvation. That is a wonderful example of how the body of Christ needs to pull together to exemplify God's will here on Earth.
all christians know of the very very 1st street preacher hehe
He healed the sick
Cast out demons
Would pray and fast and whole towns would convert.
To be apart of his organization you had to have a fasting and prayer life.
He wanted his sermon on love to be distributed one of his final wishes.
Gavin actually sounds a lot like Douglas Wilson Here
An excellent video, Gavin. One of the things I love about Wesley is that he was profoundly ecumenical and a kind of "Mere" Christian before the term was coined by Lewis. He was a priest in the Church of England, converted under Moravians (who were Lutheran Pietists), friends with a Calvinist separatist, and (allegedly, though this is a matter of debate) had warm relations with the Eastern Church and underwent a kind of ordination/consecration by a bishop named Erasmus. He used the Westminster Catechism to disciple converts, held to a high, though Protestant, view of the sacraments, and was an unapologetic advocate of the New Birth. He was very learned and indeed a "scholar on fire!"
Love this! These exact sentiments have been stirring in me, and you articulated them for me!
How do you explain the fact that the First Great Awakening in North America did not lead to the abolition of slavery.? Do you think the Second Great Awakening did so even though it stood on shaky theological foundations?
Excellent !
Your boy Johnny Wesley believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary , but you already knew that. Why pick and choose what he believed??
Incredible video, brother. Well done.
Dr Ortlund, as a Methodist from the British isles, may I say that (to use the Lincolnshire dialect Wesley would have known in his youth) you are ‘nowt but an old Methodie!’ Please pray for the British Methodist church which is in dire straits…
JC Ryle wrote much about WESLEY and WHITEFIELD Please do more historical videos ;like this one
No mercy punk
Keep your heart closed. Don't get po zested. Fight your way out!!
May you face yourself
How about a 10 year old with a blackend or dirty face and deafh……really?😮😮😮😮😢
What about a new republic follow up on George Whitefield (the prequel), Francis Ashbury and Frederick Douglas, that would be cool 😎. (PS Lorenzo Dow could get a shout out too 💪)
If you could have a conversation with David N. Hempton (Harvard University Distinguished Service Professor) on Methodism that would be something else. Maybe you and Paul Vanderklay could presuade him to have a conversation with you both.
5:20 evil britian
Wesley felt assurance years after believing the gospel and repenting of his sins. Was he saved before that experience? What if he died before that? How can we reconcile passages like the one that says "those who don't have the Spirit of Christ are not his" with the passage in Acts 8:16. What if one of those who believed the gospel and got baptized died before the apostles got there? Could you make a video about this?
Thank you, a very impressive spot-on message with what you are promoting as needed with today's church. The Holy Spirit has impressed upon me points at times in my life that amount to similar conclusions.
We, who truly love the Lord, must become abolitionists. There’s compromise in the prolife movement. To be holy, when it comes to abortion, is to work for its total and immediate abolition while rejecting legislation and rhetoric that still allows for the murder of babies.
And 1000% to street preaching. Let’s all go into the highways and byways with the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the Cure! Glory to His mane.
So refreshing to hear someone with sound doctrine and good theological reasoning not discarding the individual and revivalistic aspect of the Gospel. The Gospel is not just an intellectual matter but more a personal working of God’s spirit in the believers’ heart.
Wonderful video Dr Gavin
The decay is not inevitable and God can indeed work again
Wonderful story, how God can work through people. I myself had and experience of revival just after knowing the story of John Wesley, it was by far the best day of my life. God bless you Dr. Ortlund
Don't dispute problems of England circa 1700 but … Compared to what? Where was better? Always ask this when passing judgement. Also, the English and later American capacity to improve society is abnormal.
You needed horrible harsh punishment when you had no police force. Again, other countries were even worse.
I grew up in the Methodist Church, but now I'm a Minister in a Baptist Church. Here in Leicestershire, England the Methodist revival led to much Baptist Church planting! Converts from Methodist preaching started an independent church, which adopted baptist principles in 1755 – the movement evangelised many villages in the county. In 1770, along with other evangelical baptists, the New Connexion of General Baptists was formed.
Read "George Whitefield: The life and times of the great evangelist of the 18th century revival (vol 1)" by Arnold Dallimore and "Wesley and Men Who Followed" by Iain H. Murray. The comparison of the two men will shock you. Let us take our example from Whitefield the real human impetus behind the Methodist Movement. Wesley's struggle with predestination, justification by faith alone, and christian perfectionism made him a man who was tossed to and fro by every wind and wave of doctrine. For reference, Wesley came to his conclusion to preach against predestination by the casting lots. Not Scripture but by rolling dice… Yes, God used Wesley and for that I'm thankful but I've learned more of what not to do from his life than what to do.
Nevertheless, let us not wrangle over who is more important and let Whitefield have the final word, "I believe the Lord will work a great work upon the earth. Whatever instruments He shall make use of in effecting it, I care not. If Christ be preached, if my dear Lord be glorified, I rejoice, ye, and will rejoice" (Dallimore, Whitefield: The life and times, 392).
Thanks so much for this. Videis like this are why, as a Free Methodist, I reard you as one of my favourite YouTubers. Always Irenic. This is probably one of the best examples of Theological Triage I've seen omn YouTube. Reformed/Calvinist vs Wesleyan/Arminian should only ever be a Levvel 3 debate. Yes, I'll tease my friends on the other side of the theological spectrum but at the end of the day we're all seekin to snatch as many from Hell as we can.
The British TV series, Poldark, is great for learning about 18th Century England and the rise of Methodism (in Cornwall only , but still, it's fun to watch).
Well balanced. Thank you.
Wesley is a treasure of the English Church. So much necessary social change was brought about due to his religious convictions!
This video was refreshing. Go on brother. God bless you
Ordained Free Methodist Elder here. What I love about Wesleyan theology at its best is that it’s a convergence theology. Evangelical, Charismatic, and Sacramental. This is beautiful to me. On a secondary note, Wesley’s theology is only a “hair’s breadth” from Calvinist theology. Wesley said so himself
Came super late to the game lol. The fact that John Wesley didn't understand the very concept of gospel in spite of being educated by his parents with Bible since kid until rather late in life shows how terrible the pelagianism/nominalism at the time. I grew up in a society with similar situation (though arguably not as extreme as 18th century England) and it did took such a long time to realize that I'm a sinner who can't save myself. It's just that hard for one to come up and stumble into the right understanding since the gospel is drown out by the false norm that is regurgitated in the society and even 'Christian' communities.
Thank you .Much food for thought . What people in the modern world resonate with .Universally the message of the gospel of Christ and displayed by love .But discerning love . People like music .It is a point of connection .Has the "Christian music industry " lost it's way ? EEK the word "industry " . What about the place of mass media ?