Asahel Nettleton gained notoriety by standing against the doctrinal standing of Charles Finney and the new methods of revival.
8 COMMENTS
3:10 (and before) "… for that reason many people are not excited about the second great awakening…" — that really explains a lot on what I have personally heard people say about it … especially if they haven't read (e.g.) "Revival and Revivalism" — (which was a difficult read for me but if I ever (hopefully) read it again it should go much smoother).
Charles Finney had his critics then and now Look at the fruit of that ministry ? You critic how many people has God used you to lead many to repentance ? A person may think their own ways are right, but the LORD weighs the heart. ❤✝️
Finney had critics then and now…. 90 % of the people who came to a saving relationship with the Lord during that ministry 20 or more years later these people were still serving God…this was great sample of their deep conviction of sin and the gift of salvation was… example your heart…. has God used you in such a powerful way.. .look at the fruit ! A person may think their own ways are right, but the LORD weighs the heart. ❤✝️ proverbs 21v2
Yes l appreciate what you said but what is actually wrong in what Finney and how is this dangerous ? and why did God bless this outpouring if it was wrong or dangerous. Brother as you said l and you are not perfect and cannot error. There is only one truth if we open our hearts and minds to the Holy Spirit He will show us…. As Much fasting, intercession and prevailing prayer soaked the ministry ….The amazing conviction that touched Thousands and Thousands and what was dead came to life. Its hard not to believe that God wasnt blessing this brother.. So as they got on their knees and humbly cried out to the Lord …The Holy Spirit spoke….not by might or power by my…. Spirit….
“Which of you fathers, if your son ask for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.
I'm not here to for me. lm am here to say What is God saying…..✝️
Not saying Finney was free of errors. I'm not sure I know enough of his stuff to make a full assessment of him. But it is amazing to me that someone who is criticized as being too man centric was at the same time so reliant on God for revival and the conversion of sinners, at least when his words are taken at face value. Because from what I've seen, his words are so strong on the necessity of the Holy Spirit and prayer, that I'm led to conclude He was actually very God centered. I know he preached that man should respond of his own human agency and alter his own course(repent). But then on the other hand he so heavily emphasized the role of the Holy Spirit to impress the truth and bring conviction upon people's minds, that even those statements don't seem all that man centered in context.
So regarding the theology, my question is, if God does draw us, and teach us, and open up our hearts, and enlighten us that we might believe, and yet we also do the believing, we do the repenting, we do the coming, isn't that God centered and precisely what scripture teaches? I talked to a guy once who was so strong on election. He said, faith is the gift of God. And I said, okay, but we believe. He said, but it's from God. And I said, but we believe. He said again, but it comes from God. And I said again, with greater emphasis, it may come from God, but WE BELIEVE. At that point he understood my point. That we do believe, even if God is the sole source of that(however that works), because it is something that happens within us. John 6 says that whoever the Father draws will come to the Son. So, similar to the conversation I just noted, the Father draws, but we also come. Or to flip the emphasis, yes we come, but it's because the Father also draws us. And even if it's because of the drawing, that does not negate the coming. So saying you do nothing in coming to salvation cannot be true, even if God has done everything, by the very fact of God doing it within us. And so there has to be some biblical truth to the command, "repent!" You do it! Yes, you! And to make that command at all effectual, the Holy Spirit must put a convicting power upon those words so that the Holy Spirit brings a person to confront their own condition and be overcome by the convicting power of the truth, and even if they themselves repent, it is the work of God.
To say that people have no role whatsoever, even if God is the sole source(or cause), is misleading and obscures some important biblical truths. I think that is what finney was trying to address. I've not gone through some all of his teachings, lectures, and memoirs. But from what I have seen, what I described above was what he was trying to address. At least that is the impression I come away with. I don't think he is nearly as man centered as people sometimes suggest. Yes, you can find statements he made that seem shocking. The same is certainly true of Martin Luther. Maybe they contradicted themselves when they were trying to make a certain point or deal with a certain issue, and their teaching should be looked at as a whole.
at 2:40 he is severely mischaracterizing Finney's position on repentance and faith; the calvinists of his day would tell people they were required to repent and believe, and then tell them they could NOT repent and believe. Finney did not object to the idea that we need God's help, as this clip claims; he objected to telling men that they could not do what God was commanding them to do.
3:10 (and before) "… for that reason many people are not excited about the second great awakening…" — that really explains a lot on what I have personally heard people say about it … especially if they haven't read (e.g.) "Revival and Revivalism" — (which was a difficult read for me but if I ever (hopefully) read it again it should go much smoother).
Charles Finney had his critics then and now
Look at the fruit of that ministry ?
You critic how many people has God used you to lead many to repentance ?
A person may think their own ways are right,
but the LORD weighs the heart. ❤✝️
proverbs 21v2
Finney had critics then and now….
90 % of the people who came to a saving relationship with the Lord during that ministry 20 or more years later these people were still
serving God…this was great sample of their deep conviction of sin and the gift of salvation was…
example your heart….
has God used you in such a powerful way.. .look at the fruit !
A person may think their own ways are right,
but the LORD weighs the heart. ❤✝️
proverbs 21v2
Yes l appreciate what you said
but what is actually wrong in what Finney and how is this dangerous ?
and why did God bless this outpouring if it was wrong or dangerous.
Brother as you said l and you are not perfect and cannot error. There is only one truth if we open our hearts and minds to the Holy Spirit He will show us….
As Much fasting, intercession and prevailing prayer soaked the ministry ….The amazing conviction that touched Thousands and Thousands and what was dead came to life.
Its hard not to believe that God wasnt blessing this brother..
So as they got on their knees and humbly cried out to the Lord …The Holy Spirit spoke….not by might or power by my….
Spirit….
“Which of you fathers, if your son ask for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.
I'm not here to for me.
lm am here to say What is God saying…..✝️
Not saying Finney was free of errors. I'm not sure I know enough of his stuff to make a full assessment of him. But it is amazing to me that someone who is criticized as being too man centric was at the same time so reliant on God for revival and the conversion of sinners, at least when his words are taken at face value. Because from what I've seen, his words are so strong on the necessity of the Holy Spirit and prayer, that I'm led to conclude He was actually very God centered. I know he preached that man should respond of his own human agency and alter his own course(repent). But then on the other hand he so heavily emphasized the role of the Holy Spirit to impress the truth and bring conviction upon people's minds, that even those statements don't seem all that man centered in context.
So regarding the theology, my question is, if God does draw us, and teach us, and open up our hearts, and enlighten us that we might believe, and yet we also do the believing, we do the repenting, we do the coming, isn't that God centered and precisely what scripture teaches? I talked to a guy once who was so strong on election. He said, faith is the gift of God. And I said, okay, but we believe. He said, but it's from God. And I said, but we believe. He said again, but it comes from God. And I said again, with greater emphasis, it may come from God, but WE BELIEVE. At that point he understood my point. That we do believe, even if God is the sole source of that(however that works), because it is something that happens within us. John 6 says that whoever the Father draws will come to the Son. So, similar to the conversation I just noted, the Father draws, but we also come. Or to flip the emphasis, yes we come, but it's because the Father also draws us. And even if it's because of the drawing, that does not negate the coming. So saying you do nothing in coming to salvation cannot be true, even if God has done everything, by the very fact of God doing it within us. And so there has to be some biblical truth to the command, "repent!" You do it! Yes, you! And to make that command at all effectual, the Holy Spirit must put a convicting power upon those words so that the Holy Spirit brings a person to confront their own condition and be overcome by the convicting power of the truth, and even if they themselves repent, it is the work of God.
To say that people have no role whatsoever, even if God is the sole source(or cause), is misleading and obscures some important biblical truths. I think that is what finney was trying to address. I've not gone through some all of his teachings, lectures, and memoirs. But from what I have seen, what I described above was what he was trying to address. At least that is the impression I come away with. I don't think he is nearly as man centered as people sometimes suggest. Yes, you can find statements he made that seem shocking. The same is certainly true of Martin Luther. Maybe they contradicted themselves when they were trying to make a certain point or deal with a certain issue, and their teaching should be looked at as a whole.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Kill the music!
at 2:40 he is severely mischaracterizing Finney's position on repentance and faith; the calvinists of his day would tell people they were required to repent and believe, and then tell them they could NOT repent and believe. Finney did not object to the idea that we need God's help, as this clip claims; he objected to telling men that they could not do what God was commanding them to do.
Tulip is doctrines of demons and a lot of calvinists are so smug they think their thoughts are scripture