From what I read from the bible is that everyone is damned and it is the work of God out of mercy He chose to save some for His glory and that we are saved by through his grace by giving us faith that will enable and empower us to be transform and said yes Lord with in continuous repentance of his or her sins is the evidence that he or she has a right relationship with God. I find those 4 graces which he mentions from God given to us from within so that we can have faith in Him.
My question to these false theology is how can a dead man choose? how can a dead man have free will if he is dead in his transgressions and sins? the only answer is God has to give life to the dead man so he can choose him. This theology is anti-biblical and it is not of God Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
Hmmm… God gives free will and then waits until a person comes to faith through free will and then gives them convicting grace. You have to wonder why the convicting grace was even needed.
There is something wrong, very wrong. 99% of so called, Christianity, is deliberately rebellious to the Sabbath commandment, Jesus said to keep. Why? There is no scriptural authority for Sunday, so why even bother reverence to the heretics, and their isms?
When Adam sinned, fell, it was not just a "broken relationship" with God. He died (separation). Sin passed to all men (Romans 5). So we are born "dead in sin." (Ephesians 2:1). We need "regeneration" (John 3), not just "restoration." We must be converted, not just restored. Wesleyan thought is convoluted, not rightly understanding the Scriptures. Wesleyan's might as well be Roman Catholics.
The Wesleyan completely forgets that SATAN is the impetus for WHY Jesus came to earth to be the Father's Christ — to DESTROY the works of the Devil (sin and death). It started in Genesis, it resolves in Revelation.
How did John Wesley grappled with Romans 9 where Apostle Paul discussed God’s sovereign election, where he anticipated all the questions and answered them point blank?
You pretty much have admitted that you are following a man written doctrine, instead of the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Christ founded one and only one Church, with only one doctrine. He founded the Catholic Church, and not any other Christian denomination. You can't tell me that Jesus Christ came down and told John Wesley to make up a new doctrine. Galatians 1:6-9, ( 6), I am astonished that you are so promptly turning away from the one who called you in the grace of Christ, and are changing over to a different gospel, (7),not that it is another gospel; except that there are some who are, troubling you and seeking to pervert the gospel of Christ. (8). But even if we ourselves, or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel other than the one you received, let that person be accursed. ( 9,)As we said before, and so I now repeat: if anyone proclaims to you a gospel other than the one you received, let that person be accursed. So, John Wesley HIMSELF, had proclaimed a new doctrine, other than the one that was originally taught! So all of his teachings are false teachings.
You Must endure to the end, overcome so your crown will not be taken, overcome so your name will not be blotted out, work out your salvation with fear and trembling, do good works that prove your repentance and do good works that produce good fruits and REMAIN in Christ or He will not REMAIN in you JOHN 15, living a perpetual repentant life! Salvation is a journey, a path FOLLOWING Jesus. God will not make you stop sinning, He gives you the free will to forfeit your inheritance or endure to the end, that one will be saved is what is in the Greek. If you disagree, you do not know Gods word. Please, read your bible! God bless…
If this is what Weslians believe, then they are lost. This teaching is unbiblical. They should read the Bible more and should not trust this humanistic view of ordo salutis otherwise labeled as weslian doctrine.
While also sad and grievous, the Lord and I cannot help but chuckle at how mortal man trips all over himself.
Reading through the comments to this video, it's amazing how it degraded into a Calvin vs. Armin argument. Further amazing is how each side has downplayed the underlying cause as the other side incorrectly reading the Bible.
Is it of little wonder why the Word in Prov. 6:16-17a lusts first the hubris of man as what God most hates, it being in the same list as murder?
Is it of little wonder why Jesus, and by implication the Heavenly Father, in John 2:23-25 attempts to enlighten us as to His refusal to tangibly commit to us, him knowing such would be further fuel to the fire of pride and its resultant arrogance?
As I tweeted, God has ordained both the Calvinist and Arminian, both the cessationist and the charismatic…"so that no flesh shall [JUSTIFIABLY] glory in His Presence/Sight." Such are needed tensions of restraint, though this too fails due the sinfullness of man.
You have Calvinists, Roman Catholics and Methodists going at it in the comment section, and yet how much of what they wrote against each other will be useful in facilitating the conversion of a random stranger on YouTube toward genuine faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance from sin? In each polemical response, none take into account the whole body of Sacred Scripture, but simply pit one Bible verse or chapter against another, or label the other camp as "unbiblical," without providing anything to support the claim. This is the reason why Paul commanded Titus to "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law," because such arguments are "unprofitable and vain" (Titus 3:9).
In the video Gutenson speaks of (1) prevenient grace, (2) convicting grace, (3) justifying grace and (4) glorifying grace. Notwithstanding the individual labels that they possess, all four are equally God's plain provision of grace. Wesley, according to Gutenson, is saying that it is God's provision of grace that prevents (old definition: to go before someone with aid or help) the heart of the individual and enables them to listen to the Gospel; it is God's provision of grace that convicts/convinces someone of the truth of the Gospel; it is God's provision of grace that justifies someone, restores him or her from spiritual death and establishing a right relationship between that person and God; it is God's provision of grace that glorifies/purifies a believer, ensuring that they grow and conform more and more to Christ's pattern.
With the same understanding, the Catholic theologian St. Augustine of Hippo writes in his work, De Gratia Et Libero Arbitrio, saying, "it follows, then, dearly beloved, beyond all doubt, that as your good life is nothing else than God's grace, so also the eternal life which is the recompense of a good life is the grace of God; moreover it is given gratuitously, even as that is given gratuitously to which it is given," a sentiment that John Calvin reiterates in his work, De Servitute Et Liberatione Humani Arbitrii, saying, "it is entirely the work of grace and a benefit conferred by it that our heart is changed from a stony one to one of flesh, that our will is made new, and that we, created anew in heart and mind, at length will what we ought to will."
It is proof that while particular jurisdictions of the Church may hold deeply contrasting opinions on secondary matters such as church polity, liturgy, and tradition, they share the same essence.
It is not free grace if you as a believer half to maintain it. That is works salvation and is of satan. You teach another gospel Gal 1:8-9
From what I read from the bible is that everyone is damned and it is the work of God out of mercy He chose to save some for His glory and that we are saved by through his grace by giving us faith that will enable and empower us to be transform and said yes Lord with in continuous repentance of his or her sins is the evidence that he or she has a right relationship with God. I find those 4 graces which he mentions from God given to us from within so that we can have faith in Him.
My question to these false theology is how can a dead man choose? how can a dead man have free will if he is dead in his transgressions and sins? the only answer is God has to give life to the dead man so he can choose him. This theology is anti-biblical and it is not of God
Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
"He wants those relationships to be chosen/restored freely" – where in the bible is that? Whats the basis for this assumption? Its a pretty big one.
First step. Original sin is a myth.
The only thing we inherit from Adam and Eve is mortality. I don't inherit anything else. Very simple.
Hmmm… God gives free will and then waits until a person comes to faith through free will and then gives them convicting grace. You have to wonder why the convicting grace was even needed.
Can you kindly prove from the Bible about ordo Salutiz or order of Salavation
And not Via Salutiz
There is something wrong, very wrong. 99% of so called, Christianity, is deliberately rebellious to the Sabbath commandment, Jesus said to keep. Why? There is no scriptural authority for Sunday, so why even bother reverence to the heretics, and their isms?
Great
Request. Wesley’s view on original sin and total depravity after the fall of man
When Adam sinned, fell, it was not just a "broken relationship" with God. He died (separation). Sin passed to all men (Romans 5). So we are born "dead in sin." (Ephesians 2:1). We need "regeneration" (John 3), not just "restoration." We must be converted, not just restored. Wesleyan thought is convoluted, not rightly understanding the Scriptures. Wesleyan's might as well be Roman Catholics.
John Wesley's order?. I want the Lord Jesus' order and His' only and not some man's
The Wesleyan completely forgets that SATAN is the impetus for WHY Jesus came to earth to be the Father's Christ — to DESTROY the works of the Devil (sin and death). It started in Genesis, it resolves in Revelation.
How did John Wesley grappled with Romans 9 where Apostle Paul discussed God’s sovereign election, where he anticipated all the questions and answered them point blank?
You pretty much have admitted that you are following a man written doctrine, instead of the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Christ founded one and only one Church, with only one doctrine. He founded the Catholic Church, and not any other Christian denomination. You can't tell me that Jesus Christ came down and told John Wesley to make up a new doctrine. Galatians 1:6-9, ( 6), I am astonished that you are so promptly turning away from the one who called you in the grace of Christ, and are changing over to a different gospel, (7),not that it is another gospel; except that there are some who are, troubling you and seeking to pervert the gospel of Christ. (8). But even if we ourselves, or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel other than the one you received, let that person be accursed. ( 9,)As we said before, and so I now repeat: if anyone proclaims to you a gospel other than the one you received, let that person be accursed. So, John Wesley HIMSELF, had proclaimed a new doctrine, other than the one that was originally taught! So all of his teachings are false teachings.
You Must endure to the end, overcome so your crown will not be taken, overcome so your name will not be blotted out, work out your salvation with fear and trembling, do good works that prove your repentance and do good works that produce good fruits and REMAIN in Christ or He will not REMAIN in you JOHN 15, living a perpetual repentant life! Salvation is a journey, a path FOLLOWING Jesus. God will not make you stop sinning, He gives you the free will to forfeit your inheritance or endure to the end, that one will be saved is what is in the Greek. If you disagree, you do not know Gods word. Please, read your bible! God bless…
If this is what Weslians believe, then they are lost. This teaching is unbiblical. They should read the Bible more and should not trust this humanistic view of ordo salutis otherwise labeled as weslian doctrine.
While also sad and grievous, the Lord and I cannot help but chuckle at how mortal man trips all over himself.
Reading through the comments to this video, it's amazing how it degraded into a Calvin vs. Armin argument. Further amazing is how each side has downplayed the underlying cause as the other side incorrectly reading the Bible.
Is it of little wonder why the Word in Prov. 6:16-17a lusts first the hubris of man as what God most hates, it being in the same list as murder?
Is it of little wonder why Jesus, and by implication the Heavenly Father, in John 2:23-25 attempts to enlighten us as to His refusal to tangibly commit to us, him knowing such would be further fuel to the fire of pride and its resultant arrogance?
As I tweeted, God has ordained both the Calvinist and Arminian, both the cessationist and the charismatic…"so that no flesh shall [JUSTIFIABLY] glory in His Presence/Sight." Such are needed tensions of restraint, though this too fails due the sinfullness of man.
You have Calvinists, Roman Catholics and Methodists going at it in the comment section, and yet how much of what they wrote against each other will be useful in facilitating the conversion of a random stranger on YouTube toward genuine faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance from sin? In each polemical response, none take into account the whole body of Sacred Scripture, but simply pit one Bible verse or chapter against another, or label the other camp as "unbiblical," without providing anything to support the claim. This is the reason why Paul commanded Titus to "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law," because such arguments are "unprofitable and vain" (Titus 3:9).
In the video Gutenson speaks of (1) prevenient grace, (2) convicting grace, (3) justifying grace and (4) glorifying grace. Notwithstanding the individual labels that they possess, all four are equally God's plain provision of grace. Wesley, according to Gutenson, is saying that it is God's provision of grace that prevents (old definition: to go before someone with aid or help) the heart of the individual and enables them to listen to the Gospel; it is God's provision of grace that convicts/convinces someone of the truth of the Gospel; it is God's provision of grace that justifies someone, restores him or her from spiritual death and establishing a right relationship between that person and God; it is God's provision of grace that glorifies/purifies a believer, ensuring that they grow and conform more and more to Christ's pattern.
With the same understanding, the Catholic theologian St. Augustine of Hippo writes in his work, De Gratia Et Libero Arbitrio, saying, "it follows, then, dearly beloved, beyond all doubt, that as your good life is nothing else than God's grace, so also the eternal life which is the recompense of a good life is the grace of God; moreover it is given gratuitously, even as that is given gratuitously to which it is given," a sentiment that John Calvin reiterates in his work, De Servitute Et Liberatione Humani Arbitrii, saying, "it is entirely the work of grace and a benefit conferred by it that our heart is changed from a stony one to one of flesh, that our will is made new, and that we, created anew in heart and mind, at length will what we ought to will."
It is proof that while particular jurisdictions of the Church may hold deeply contrasting opinions on secondary matters such as church polity, liturgy, and tradition, they share the same essence.
Amen