Voddie Baucham, J. D. Greear, and Russell Moore discuss one of the most complex and pressing questions of our day. Subscribe …
37 COMMENTS
To someone who suffers, if you will, with attraction to the same sex, what solutions and pathways has God set? I only see condemnation but there’s not a way provided to help and protect LGBT youth in the church. It’s not going away
Be what you want your judgement but don't shove your sexual preference down everyone's throat that your preference not the world business! Close that bedroom door!
The Bible says that Open rebuke is better than secret love. It is time for us to call a spade a spade. There is no such thing as an lgbt Christian. To be a Christian you have to be Christlike and these people do not meet the criteria of Christlikeness. No not by a long way. An appropriate name for them is the acronym PCI or Perchrim. This stands for Perverted Christian Imitator. David Jeremiah told his congregation : Be what you is and not what you ain't. Cos if you ain't what you is you is what you ain't.
So… you're objection to homosexuality in the modern day is…? This is the problem with the debate. What is your problem with homosexuality itself, not the culture around it? The only objection I've heard is that children can't be produced but- is that REALLY what you think makes a marriage legitimate? I'm sorry, allowing two celebrate men to get married seems less of a mockery to marriage than changing the vow to "until impotence do you part". But if you really believe the purpose of marriage is procreation I'll gladly hear the story of any Christian who supported their church refusing marriage to a woman with unterus problems or a man with sterility issues. Please tell me of your church members cheering as a woman who already went through menopause was denied the chance to remarry when her first husband died. This is not a real standard. If the objection is only to the culture then we as Christians really should use a different tact.
My own opinion I'm only ok with being against gay stuff if it is to decrease the amount of ppl turning gay. Otherwise, if it is out of their control, what difference does it make if you ban gay marriage. They won't turn straight. They'll just be living a life with no sexual release and no love. Maybe their love is not with the typical feminine women, but another man. sure the genitals don't really fit like a puzzle, but is that good enuf reason?
What if that part, along with several OTHER parts, was human agenda and not of God at all?? I feel like God has much bigger things to worry about in this world then same sex marriage 🤷🏻♂️ yet homosexuality is stated as “the greatest abomination against God” and not rape? Murder? Hmmmmmm 🤔
He said : "we are the salt …. that preserves." Well, that seems to be the problem. You cant preserve everything. You can only encage it. You can oppress it. Sure. When a 2000 year old book is taken seriously and the values of people from the bronze age are considered holy …. and when its all supposedly true with sole argument : god said so. Then my dear preachers : throw away your cell phones …. dont brush your teeth …. condemm the homosexuals … live like the first christian society and drink that filthy water from back then. In my world view you dont have the right to engage in a serious sensible debate, as your close minded ancient view puts you outside of todays reason. Jesus said : "if one part of your body really bothers you then cut it off." Thats the reasoning of a human in the bronze age. Okay. And it is still the brutal advice to gaypeople today. The church stands for blindness and cruelty. A 2000 year old book wont do it today. You preachers need evolution of the intellect. You need to read 5oo other books ….. to get a glimpse of where we have evolved to… despite the shackles and chains from the various christian groups. When you preachers finally wake up and see how much you worship a gone time and a dead ideal … then you can come back and join the debates of today. Remember : our modern, peaceful, safe and wealthy states have been built by good honest people with the help of intelligence and enlightenment ….. and despite the nonsense of biblical preaching. ::: do…. all the best. May wisdom come. Take care. Chris. Music teacher from Munich Bavaria.
If these people are religious then they should stick to that and not about people choice of sin. Most of preacher's choice of sin is robbing members in God's name.
Modernization did this to us. For most of human history we lived in nature, were self dependent, and suffered a bit. Religion works best in this scenario as the hope of utopia in the afterlife pushes people though the difficult world around them. Today in a modern country everything is automated, digital, and all about secular individualism. Modernization distracts people from religion and tries to make utopia happen on earth (socialism, humanism, ect.). However this makes people dependent on corporations (wage slaves) and empty as they live shallow lives on social media. If you aren't religious ask yourself does this life really have a purpose? How addicted are you to the secular utopia and the comforts of life?
So literally you guys are making a fascistic Theocracy argument. That the state should not decide who marries whom but, rather your religion should decide. Absolutely. Not. America was founded because the people hated being forced to follow the church of England, being told what to believe and how to believe. Seeing how problematic government mixing with religion is and can be. Like it or not, gay people like myself (pansexual) deserve the right to marry as straight people do. Also that's the thing, we want monogamy as well. So how is gay people getting married ruin the concept of monogamous relationships exactly?
Sure divorce is bad and could hurt children in the family. An abusive spouse is also harmful on which case divorce is necessary to get the other spouse and children as far away from the abuser as possible. Oh but you'd say to a man or a woman who's married to their abuser "well stay married cause if you divorce God will be upset." Quite frankly I don't care about God nor do I believe in him. So he and you guys should never decide who I can marry. Also quit the straw man argument. 'if homosexuals marry then pedos will marry kids. Or x will marry y.' Adults in relationships with children is able to be proven as harmful. There isn't anything harmful about a man marrying a man or woman marrying a woman.
These arguments aren't logical at all. Two adults who don't conform to heteronormative, Christian principles, who choose to marry with lucid minds, are not harming anyone else. Pushing your religion on others is the real breach of ethics. Thank goodness we now have equality in marriage!
The United States is not a theocracy and never should be. Keep religion out of law making and civil rights. If you believe that a book written over 2 thousand years ago should dictate your ethical framework and this country’s law making in the modern age then you are delusional. Think critically.
What’s ironic is my dad and brothers never really had happy marriages with their wives. When I asked a colleague of mine about his marriage, he stated to me that his marriage to his partner has been very healthy and loving.
The Kingdom of God is not a far away place, it’s within us.
Secondly, being born again is state of mind that changes your thinking from a lower to a higher realm of understanding. Which opens your eyes to SEE the kingdom oh God.
NO WHERE in the Bible say "something is ONLY wrong if it hurts someone". By that same logic, the Bible would not say regular sex of a couple before marriage, would not be a sin. As we all no, it is 100% listed as a sin.
Thankful for this video. 8 years later we need to ask if TGC believes in tranformation at least as much as medical science has proven it exists. It's time to ask God for more faith than was had in "supplemental Christian books" past.
i think the one thing, always put out from the equation is the fact, that being gay is not something i decided upon. it is not something i was interested in (by that i mean lgbt+ "community") it is not that i felt some attraction to men and started to go in that direction of thoughts. i wasn't raped by an uncle. i had a father and a mother. It is just the fact, that when my penis started to have mind on his own, he was pointing at men, not women. i wasnt like yessss im gayy mmm mens buttt satan, mmm i want to destroy the family values…. when it was happening i just realized that i might be gay, and well – that means that my life won't be that easy, it is just who i am. i love woman, but i cannot imagine myself in a heteronormative relationship, let alone sexual – and its not beacouse im a cunt who cant have a woman – womans do flirt with me sometimes, not even the ugly ones XD im polish, here people are so closed-minded, so agressive toward me. i have what i consider a good set of morals, way better and less intrusive to other humans than some devoted christians… i think christianity is super intrusive for me as a gay man, beacause im bombarded from every direction that im not normal, im a pedo, im this, im that….. like…. why? i understand that u love your wife, but why are you literally dehumanazing me? why are you treating me like a thief, or even a murderer. isn't christianity point to be all loving, have mercy and, understanding? beacouse all i feel from christianity as a religion towards me, is death and misery. im not a human, im a pathetic, disgusting gay who needs to be stoned (stoned in a bit more "medieval" meaning) not even worthy to be heard. like im deeply disgusting, beacause i want love.
Cant deny the spirit of Lilith is very strong now a days. it isnt just misleading homosexuals….misleads lustful people of all sexuality and race. pedophilia…porn addiction…homosexuality… and a lot of music encourages living a very sexually active perverse lifestyle with no respect for women.
Many men are hypnotized by women. Even in our minds we defile women. Married women. then we think it is cool to share with our boys….and they encourage us to be sinful in many cases. rarely do we have friends who will say "wait a minute bro…dont do it."
then if you dont spend every ounce of your being chasing women….they will call you gay or try to belittle your manhood. society is so blind. if the blind lead the blind….both will fall into a pit. God i hope i am not blind.
To someone who suffers, if you will, with attraction to the same sex, what solutions and pathways has God set? I only see condemnation but there’s not a way provided to help and protect LGBT youth in the church. It’s not going away
It's not about us, it's about God
Be what you want your judgement but don't shove your sexual preference down everyone's throat that your preference not the world business! Close that bedroom door!
Simple, it's banned by GOD,like any other sexual sin.It's an Abomination to GOD.
Jesus said deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me
The Bible says that Open rebuke is better than secret love. It is time for us to call a spade a spade. There is no such thing as an lgbt Christian. To be a Christian you have to be Christlike and these people do not meet the criteria of Christlikeness. No not by a long way. An appropriate name for them is the acronym PCI or Perchrim. This stands for Perverted Christian Imitator. David Jeremiah told his congregation : Be what you is and not what you ain't. Cos if you ain't what you is you is what you ain't.
Goes against God’s teaching and hurts him.
So… you're objection to homosexuality in the modern day is…? This is the problem with the debate. What is your problem with homosexuality itself, not the culture around it? The only objection I've heard is that children can't be produced but- is that REALLY what you think makes a marriage legitimate? I'm sorry, allowing two celebrate men to get married seems less of a mockery to marriage than changing the vow to "until impotence do you part". But if you really believe the purpose of marriage is procreation I'll gladly hear the story of any Christian who supported their church refusing marriage to a woman with unterus problems or a man with sterility issues. Please tell me of your church members cheering as a woman who already went through menopause was denied the chance to remarry when her first husband died. This is not a real standard.
If the objection is only to the culture then we as Christians really should use a different tact.
My own opinion I'm only ok with being against gay stuff if it is to decrease the amount of ppl turning gay. Otherwise, if it is out of their control, what difference does it make if you ban gay marriage. They won't turn straight. They'll just be living a life with no sexual release and no love. Maybe their love is not with the typical feminine women, but another man. sure the genitals don't really fit like a puzzle, but is that good enuf reason?
This is literally a circle jerk.
Wrong question.
How does homosexuality violate the 2 greatest commandments that the law and the prophets are based on?
What if that part, along with several OTHER parts, was human agenda and not of God at all?? I feel like God has much bigger things to worry about in this world then same sex marriage 🤷🏻♂️ yet homosexuality is stated as “the greatest abomination against God” and not rape? Murder? Hmmmmmm 🤔
He said : "we are the salt …. that preserves." Well, that seems to be the problem. You cant preserve everything. You can only encage it. You can oppress it. Sure. When a 2000 year old book is taken seriously and the values of people from the bronze age are considered holy …. and when its all supposedly true with sole argument : god said so.
Then my dear preachers : throw away your cell phones …. dont brush your teeth …. condemm the homosexuals … live like the first christian society and drink that filthy water from back then. In my world view you dont have the right to engage in a serious sensible debate, as your close minded ancient view puts you outside of todays reason. Jesus said : "if one part of your body really bothers you then cut it off." Thats the reasoning of a human in the bronze age. Okay. And it is still the brutal advice to gaypeople today. The church stands for blindness and cruelty. A 2000 year old book wont do it today. You preachers need evolution of the intellect. You need to read 5oo other books ….. to get a glimpse of where we have evolved to… despite the shackles and chains from the various christian groups. When you preachers finally wake up and see how much you worship a gone time and a dead ideal … then you can come back and join the debates of today. Remember : our modern, peaceful, safe and wealthy states have been built by good honest people with the help of intelligence and enlightenment ….. and despite the nonsense of biblical preaching. ::: do…. all the best. May wisdom come. Take care. Chris. Music teacher from Munich Bavaria.
If these people are religious then they should stick to that and not about people choice of sin. Most of preacher's choice of sin is robbing members in God's name.
Modernization did this to us. For most of human history we lived in nature, were self dependent, and suffered a bit. Religion works best in this scenario as the hope of utopia in the afterlife pushes people though the difficult world around them. Today in a modern country everything is automated, digital, and all about secular individualism. Modernization distracts people from religion and tries to make utopia happen on earth (socialism, humanism, ect.). However this makes people dependent on corporations (wage slaves) and empty as they live shallow lives on social media. If you aren't religious ask yourself does this life really have a purpose? How addicted are you to the secular utopia and the comforts of life?
So literally you guys are making a fascistic Theocracy argument. That the state should not decide who marries whom but, rather your religion should decide. Absolutely. Not. America was founded because the people hated being forced to follow the church of England, being told what to believe and how to believe. Seeing how problematic government mixing with religion is and can be. Like it or not, gay people like myself (pansexual) deserve the right to marry as straight people do. Also that's the thing, we want monogamy as well. So how is gay people getting married ruin the concept of monogamous relationships exactly?
Sure divorce is bad and could hurt children in the family. An abusive spouse is also harmful on which case divorce is necessary to get the other spouse and children as far away from the abuser as possible. Oh but you'd say to a man or a woman who's married to their abuser "well stay married cause if you divorce God will be upset." Quite frankly I don't care about God nor do I believe in him. So he and you guys should never decide who I can marry. Also quit the straw man argument. 'if homosexuals marry then pedos will marry kids. Or x will marry y.' Adults in relationships with children is able to be proven as harmful. There isn't anything harmful about a man marrying a man or woman marrying a woman.
These arguments aren't logical at all. Two adults who don't conform to heteronormative, Christian principles, who choose to marry with lucid minds, are not harming anyone else. Pushing your religion on others is the real breach of ethics. Thank goodness we now have equality in marriage!
So tell us Voddie, which church is more of a pillar. Oh, the ones you approve of, of course.
8 years of progress and you have failed from trying to take away and restrict our rights, nice try homophobes. Happy pride month 🏳️🌈
IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW U ARE BORN, U MUST BE REBORN IN CHRIST
As a muslim I agree with everything y’all said on this topic
If it doesn't harm anyone??? That question alone sun's it up and will tell if people have an understanding or are just going of how they feel.
The United States is not a theocracy and never should be. Keep religion out of law making and civil rights. If you believe that a book written over 2 thousand years ago should dictate your ethical framework and this country’s law making in the modern age then you are delusional. Think critically.
It is against nature any thing against nature cannot reproduce it's self is against nature God created nature as it is not as man kind has made it.
What’s ironic is my dad and brothers never really had happy marriages with their wives. When I asked a colleague of mine about his marriage, he stated to me that his marriage to his partner has been very healthy and loving.
Kinda makes you wonder!
The Kingdom of God is not a far away place, it’s within us.
Secondly, being born again is state of mind that changes your thinking from a lower to a higher realm of understanding. Which opens your eyes to SEE the kingdom oh God.
This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard:
NO WHERE in the Bible say "something is ONLY wrong if it hurts someone". By that same logic, the Bible would not say regular sex of a couple before marriage, would not be a sin. As we all no, it is 100% listed as a sin.
God says it is wrong then it is, period. Opinions of humans do not matter.
Three men with the same opinion pretending to have a discussion. Now THAT is truly a farce.
Yooo they got vodie baucham on the? I'm subscribing
I love to hear a religious guy droping the "Bible" Word.
I wouldn't want to go in Patlradise. If paradise are full of those Christians preaching hates against others.
It would be like Bioshocks Infinites.
Depopulation…
Thankful for this video. 8 years later we need to ask if TGC believes in tranformation at least as much as medical science has proven it exists. It's time to ask God for more faith than was had in "supplemental Christian books" past.
i think the one thing, always put out from the equation is the fact, that being gay is not something i decided upon. it is not something i was interested in (by that i mean lgbt+ "community") it is not that i felt some attraction to men and started to go in that direction of thoughts. i wasn't raped by an uncle. i had a father and a mother. It is just the fact, that when my penis started to have mind on his own, he was pointing at men, not women. i wasnt like yessss im gayy mmm mens buttt satan, mmm i want to destroy the family values…. when it was happening i just realized that i might be gay, and well – that means that my life won't be that easy, it is just who i am. i love woman, but i cannot imagine myself in a heteronormative relationship, let alone sexual – and its not beacouse im a cunt who cant have a woman – womans do flirt with me sometimes, not even the ugly ones XD im polish, here people are so closed-minded, so agressive toward me. i have what i consider a good set of morals, way better and less intrusive to other humans than some devoted christians… i think christianity is super intrusive for me as a gay man, beacause im bombarded from every direction that im not normal, im a pedo, im this, im that….. like…. why? i understand that u love your wife, but why are you literally dehumanazing me? why are you treating me like a thief, or even a murderer. isn't christianity point to be all loving, have mercy and, understanding? beacouse all i feel from christianity as a religion towards me, is death and misery. im not a human, im a pathetic, disgusting gay who needs to be stoned (stoned in a bit more "medieval" meaning) not even worthy to be heard. like im deeply disgusting, beacause i want love.
Fuck the Bible
Cant deny the spirit of Lilith is very strong now a days. it isnt just misleading homosexuals….misleads lustful people of all sexuality and race. pedophilia…porn addiction…homosexuality… and a lot of music encourages living a very sexually active perverse lifestyle with no respect for women.
Many men are hypnotized by women. Even in our minds we defile women. Married women. then we think it is cool to share with our boys….and they encourage us to be sinful in many cases. rarely do we have friends who will say "wait a minute bro…dont do it."
then if you dont spend every ounce of your being chasing women….they will call you gay or try to belittle your manhood. society is so blind. if the blind lead the blind….both will fall into a pit. God i hope i am not blind.