@ChristianityForReal WHAT does 2 Peter 2:9 have to do with falling from grace? Again, do you mean LOSE your salvation? Peter is admonishing the believer to make his calling and election sure. He calls them to remember they are bought with a price. Jesus is the Author and FINISHER of our faith. He says His sheep will NEVER perish in John 10 and Paul, in Romans 8:38-39 says we can't be separated from the love of God.
Q:: Was the believer ADOPTED or not? Does God send him back to the orphanage?
@ChristianityForReal "If you depart from the faith then you have fallen from grace. And righteousness won't be imputed if you don't repent and believe."
So CAN a true, born again, child of God (believer) ever LOSE his or her salvation either by departing from the faith or failing to repent? CAN you lose your salvation.
Finney was Lost he missed the basic truths of Christ righteousness.
Isaiah 53:7 He (Jesus) was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter (to get slaughtered by his own creation), and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth
Acts 2:23 This man (Jesus /God became a man) was handed over to you by God's deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you (all of us), with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
Isaiah 53:7 He (Jesus) was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter (to get slaughtered by his own creation), and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth
2 Corinthians 5:21 God (The Father) made him (Jesus/ God became a man) who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we can become the righteousness of God.
the thing that Mr. finney was dealing with was the scriptural difference between an imputed rightousness,and an actual communication of God's rightousness through faith to man after calvary, Imputation,was for old testiment saints,because christ had not been crucified as of then,but now;after the cross,and the glorifying of christ at the throne,by God,he sent his very spirit into the hearts of every man! after a work of the spirit,(John 16:7-10) he was dealing with problems at his time,which taught that just believing jesus died for them,put them in a saved condition,without any contrite and brokeness of will! that they might seek another "CHRIST"
all the arguments concerning these doctrines,only show the difference between actual believers in a living spirit,and a formal fundamentalist ideology!
Unfortunately this is an Augustinian doctrine, seeing as imputation nowhere, no time, in history, in the church or in common language does it ever mean a transferal. Please look this up,. If YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS DOES NOT EXCEED, and when you sin it is your righteousness from Jesus that needs restoring, i.e. your conscience, your moral compass, your mind and maybe your body that needs its righteousness restored by the free gift of Jesus. We are sentient beings, under our own control, Jesus has given us a moral compass, he restores he forgives he annihilates sin completely, then he puts the you as righteous through him, ie not your own righteousness, or self generated, but by Jesus. Nowhere does scripture say the actual righteousness of Jesus becomes ours, in a magical cloak like covering , or infused , in a starnge accounting procedure that has to do with only positional righteousness. No,, we are actually washed, us, me and you,. Its impossible to get away from yourself, even when Jesus lives in you and not you, it is still you who has that blessing. We simply cannot have cheap grace, we may not say, I am a sinner, and do bad, but I am his righteousness. This magical cloak like covering is not found in scripture. This cheap grace of I may sin but I am magically righteosous is extremely strong delusion. Again Calvin fighting the Catholics, but both have the same father Augustine. Don't you find that strange???. Maybe Augustine was wrong on this as he was on most all his doctrine.. Please give me one scripture that teaches this..https://youtu.be/vREYq8sW7TM.
'According to scripture, faith plus anything, especially works, is repugnant.'
– Seriously?
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:14, 17, 21-24
This is what I call denying the truth of scripture.
I see a lot of misrepresentation of Finney here. Excerpts taken without his full explanation. Here is what Finney said. "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."–2 Cor. 5:21 And who must be selected as an atoning victim for this purpose? Shall it be some mighty angel? Oh no; for what could an angel do? How could he endure the wrath of God, standing in the place of all the sin of our race? And still more, I ask, how could any angel's sufferings make such an impression upon the universe, as would sustain God's throne in proclaiming an amnesty on such grounds? No angel, then, however great or exalted could avail, and God must pass them all by, and select his own co-equal Son! No being less glorious and less exalted than God's Eternal Son can stand forth as the representative of sin, to receive in his own person such inflictions of divine displeasure as would avail to show the universe most impressively how God regards sin. Now it shall be known throughout all worlds, as far as God Himself is known, that it is in his heart to pardon when He can, and punish when He must.
And mark, how perfectly fitted for his work, in character and relations is our great atoning sacrifice. He is a "lamb without blemish and without spot." He "knew no sin." Hence it could not be said or thought that He suffered on his own account. It would be known at once that a just God did not hide his own face from his beloved Son, for any wrong He had done. All the more impressive therefore must this scene have been for this reason. The great enquiry must run through all the ranks and orders of created intelligences–Wherefore does the spotless Lamb of God suffer? Why does He descend so low, and assume a nature into union with his own, which ranked so infinitely beneath his? What mean these strange things? O, what impressions must have been made throughout all heaven when it was made known that the Son of God came down from the throne of the universe to a mean manger in Bethlehem, to toil and weep in the land of his chosen people, and to die an accursed death on Calvary, that He might stand before divine justice as the embodiment of all earth's sin, and pave the way thus for all earth's sinners to be forgiven! The second person of the Trinity–Himself God, assumes in union with his own, the entire nature of the sinning race, that He may thus save them and raise them to a higher rank than that from which they had fallen. What a work is this!
IV. What is intended by our "being made the righteousness of God in Him."
This also cannot be taken in its most strictly literal sense. It cannot be conceived that we should be converted into the intrinsic, essential righteousness of God. The idea of representation obtains in both clauses of our text. As Christ stood before God to represent the sins of our race, so his pardoned children stand forth to represent the righteousness of God. He stood disowned and forsaken of God, as if He were Himself our sin; we stand forgiven and accepted through Him, as if we were God's righteousness. He is treated as a sinner; we for his sake are treated as righteous. Just think of this. What an exchange! Christ was infinitely righteous, but laid aside the relations of a righteous one, and appeared for us as a sinner and was treated accordingly. We were altogether lost in sin, yet we are transferred governmentally from that position before God, and for Christ's sake are treated as if we were righteous. What a wonderful transaction is this! It were easy to show that this were the perfection of philosophy in government to make such a substitution as will save an indefinite amount of suffering, and yet secure most perfectly, regard for the law, obedience to its precepts, and confidence in the great Lawgiver. Oberlin Evangelist. December 6, 1848, Substitution, Sermon by C.G. Finnev.
Charles Finney.
Jesse Morrell's hero.
Too bad his hero isn't Christ Jesus.
@ChristianityForReal "I ought to heed to God's warnings and not be complacent lest I fall from my secure position"
By fall do you mean lose your salvation? That cannot be IF Jesus gives His sheep ETERNAL life.
@ChristianityForReal WHAT does 2 Peter 2:9 have to do with falling from grace? Again, do you mean LOSE your salvation? Peter is admonishing the believer to make his calling and election sure. He calls them to remember they are bought with a price. Jesus is the Author and FINISHER of our faith. He says His sheep will NEVER perish in John 10 and Paul, in Romans 8:38-39 says we can't be separated from the love of God.
Q:: Was the believer ADOPTED or not? Does God send him back to the orphanage?
@ChristianityForReal "If you depart from the faith then you have fallen from grace. And righteousness won't be imputed if you don't repent and believe."
So CAN a true, born again, child of God (believer) ever LOSE his or her salvation either by departing from the faith or failing to repent? CAN you lose your salvation.
@HumbleFaith777 :" Was the believer ADOPTED or not? Does God send him back to the orphanage?"
Amen,he'd have to be shoved back through the womb of the world to be unborn again too.
eternal life is the holy spirit,the eternal spirit,he can be grieved and quenched ,thus leaving you to your sins,do not be deceived.
Finney was Lost he missed the basic truths of Christ righteousness.
Isaiah 53:7 He (Jesus) was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter (to get slaughtered by his own creation), and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth
Acts 2:23 This man (Jesus /God became a man) was handed over to you by God's deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you (all of us), with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
Isaiah 53:7 He (Jesus) was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter (to get slaughtered by his own creation), and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth
2 Corinthians 5:21 God (The Father) made him (Jesus/ God became a man) who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we can become the righteousness of God.
Awesome Job Jeff Swayzee
the thing that Mr. finney was dealing with was the scriptural difference between an imputed rightousness,and an actual communication of God's rightousness through faith to man after calvary, Imputation,was for old testiment saints,because christ had not been crucified as of then,but now;after the cross,and the glorifying of christ at the throne,by God,he sent his very spirit into the hearts of every man! after a work of the spirit,(John 16:7-10) he was dealing with problems at his time,which taught that just believing jesus died for them,put them in a saved condition,without any contrite and brokeness of will! that they might seek another "CHRIST"
all the arguments concerning these doctrines,only show the difference between actual believers in a living spirit,and a formal fundamentalist ideology!
Another example of parroting what one has heard Finney believed instead of discussing what he actually believed.
http://www.ricksbell.com/2011/07/charles-finney-is-not-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/
Unfortunately this is an Augustinian doctrine, seeing as imputation nowhere, no time, in history, in the church or in common language does it ever mean a transferal. Please look this up,. If YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS DOES NOT EXCEED, and when you sin it is your righteousness from Jesus that needs restoring, i.e. your conscience, your moral compass, your mind and maybe your body that needs its righteousness restored by the free gift of Jesus. We are sentient beings, under our own control, Jesus has given us a moral compass, he restores he forgives he annihilates sin completely, then he puts the you as righteous through him, ie not your own righteousness, or self generated, but by Jesus. Nowhere does scripture say the actual righteousness of Jesus becomes ours, in a magical cloak like covering , or infused , in a starnge accounting procedure that has to do with only positional righteousness. No,, we are actually washed, us, me and you,. Its impossible to get away from yourself, even when Jesus lives in you and not you, it is still you who has that blessing. We simply cannot have cheap grace, we may not say, I am a sinner, and do bad, but I am his righteousness. This magical cloak like covering is not found in scripture. This cheap grace of I may sin but I am magically righteosous is extremely strong delusion. Again Calvin fighting the Catholics, but both have the same father Augustine. Don't you find that strange???. Maybe Augustine was wrong on this as he was on most all his doctrine.. Please give me one scripture that teaches this..https://youtu.be/vREYq8sW7TM.
'According to scripture, faith plus anything, especially works, is repugnant.'
– Seriously?
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:14, 17, 21-24
This is what I call denying the truth of scripture.
I see a lot of misrepresentation of Finney here. Excerpts taken without his full explanation. Here is what Finney said. "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."–2 Cor. 5:21
And who must be selected as an atoning victim for this purpose? Shall it be some mighty angel? Oh no; for what could an angel do? How could he endure the wrath of God, standing in the place of all the sin of our race? And still more, I ask, how could any angel's sufferings make such an impression upon the universe, as would sustain God's throne in proclaiming an amnesty on such grounds? No angel, then, however great or exalted could avail, and God must pass them all by, and select his own co-equal Son! No being less glorious and less exalted than God's Eternal Son can stand forth as the representative of sin, to receive in his own person such inflictions of divine displeasure as would avail to show the universe most impressively how God regards sin. Now it shall be known throughout all worlds, as far as God Himself is known, that it is in his heart to pardon when He can, and punish when He must.
And mark, how perfectly fitted for his work, in character and relations is our great atoning sacrifice. He is a "lamb without blemish and without spot." He "knew no sin." Hence it could not be said or thought that He suffered on his own account. It would be known at once that a just God did not hide his own face from his beloved Son, for any wrong He had done. All the more impressive therefore must this scene have been for this reason. The great enquiry must run through all the ranks and orders of created intelligences–Wherefore does the spotless Lamb of God suffer? Why does He descend so low, and assume a nature into union with his own, which ranked so infinitely beneath his? What mean these strange things? O, what impressions must have been made throughout all heaven when it was made known that the Son of God came down from the throne of the universe to a mean manger in Bethlehem, to toil and weep in the land of his chosen people, and to die an accursed death on Calvary, that He might stand before divine justice as the embodiment of all earth's sin, and pave the way thus for all earth's sinners to be forgiven! The second person of the Trinity–Himself God, assumes in union with his own, the entire nature of the sinning race, that He may thus save them and raise them to a higher rank than that from which they had fallen. What a work is this!
IV. What is intended by our "being made the righteousness of God in Him."
This also cannot be taken in its most strictly literal sense. It cannot be conceived that we should be converted into the intrinsic, essential righteousness of God. The idea of representation obtains in both clauses of our text. As Christ stood before God to represent the sins of our race, so his pardoned children stand forth to represent the righteousness of God. He stood disowned and forsaken of God, as if He were Himself our sin; we stand forgiven and accepted through Him, as if we were God's righteousness. He is treated as a sinner; we for his sake are treated as righteous. Just think of this. What an exchange! Christ was infinitely righteous, but laid aside the relations of a righteous one, and appeared for us as a sinner and was treated accordingly. We were altogether lost in sin, yet we are transferred governmentally from that position before God, and for Christ's sake are treated as if we were righteous. What a wonderful transaction is this! It were easy to show that this were the perfection of philosophy in government to make such a substitution as will save an indefinite amount of suffering, and yet secure most perfectly, regard for the law, obedience to its precepts, and confidence in the great Lawgiver.
Oberlin Evangelist. December 6,
1848, Substitution, Sermon by
C.G. Finnev.
Great job…that was concise and to the point. Thank you! 👍 😊