Beth Moore is a practical Bible teacherā¦a theologian she is notā¦she must have been looking for something to get her name trendingā¦American Christianity what you gonna do smh
This couldāve been a much easier response video. Sheās a lost soul. Done. But I do appreciate you helping those who may have needed help understanding why sheās wrong.
Psalm 5 is a great example of God hating the wicked. I remember seeing that and saying similar things to Beth, and the Scripture was jaw dropping. If our system destroys our ability to speak biblically with language God uses about his own attitudes toward sinners, then we need repentance.
All your points are valid, but isn't it also true that for this sermon he changed his style after hearing George Whitfield, a prominent evangelist at the time?
The sermon can be found at blue letter Bible web site. My issues with Edwards (I'm so not a fan) includes that of pronouns. The 2nd person pronoun, "you" is found 200 times (blue letter word search.) In contrast, in 2 Corinthians Paul uses the first person pronoun, "we" over 100 times. Example:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:"
It's one thing for a preacher to quote Paul in "All have sinnedā¦" and it's quite another thing for that preacher to address the listeners with, "You sinners!" even if it's not an incorrect statement.
As for the statement, ""Pidgeon-holing a person for their most famous or infamous sermon and indeed the most difficult paragraph therein is probably not the fairest reasonā¦"
When I point out that your caricature of deity is less compassionate than I, many on your side try to make it a discussion of fairness ā that (the Calvinistic caricature of) God doesn't have to be "fair." If he were fair we'd all be in hell. So if I'm unfair, then, in a sense, I am godly.
In my library, I owe the works of Jonathan Edwards (2 volume set) and heās one of my heroes (from a layman). I can honestly say this, if Beth Moore were in the hospital, and if she were visited by Jonathan Edwards, Iām pretty sure he would point her to Christā¦ Iām glad I was able to buy his works because heās slowly getting canceled.
Beth says she wants to have a sense that she is "worth saving"! But the whole point Jonathan Edwards is making is in God's sight we are NOT worth saving. Jesus didn't purchase us because we had great value! His severity towards sinful creatures illustrates how great His mercy & grace.
Although I would not say I am overly fond of Edwards or the Puritans on several counts, your assertion that "Sinners in the hands of an Angry God" is not indicative of Edawards' typical preaching style is quite correct. I have read other sermons of his, and he has much which is very UNLIKE "Sinners in the Handsā¦"
Beth Moore is cherry-picking at best, and Edwards, though his wording is a bit shocking to hear, is essentially correct in that all who are without Christ will perish.
Christianity is severely lacking of proper female bible teachers. I follow almost exclusively male pastors and teachers, I am interested in theology and the deeper things in the bible, that is why I follow this channel. If it is okay for the women of this channel I would like to recommend Suzanne Heck's bible studies "With the Master" she will challenge you. No fuzzy religion, she has been a blessing to me just like this channel. Pastor Everhard always makes his point with such class and Christian compassion that he sets an example for the rest of us. Thank you!
But (when you are a Calvinist), there is no necessity to preach the wrath of God. Those who have been "chosen" for heaven (before the foundation of the world) will automatically be saved without an appropriate sermon. Those whom God has damned (before the foundation of the world) cannot respond to the message anyway being totally "dead in sin." O the joys of Calvinism!
Gracious response, good thought's on reading the rest of body of work. Also as a non reformed guy, I really appreciated your tone and could see doing coffee with you and talking theology! š
So what if people mostly are familiar with the Sinners sermon? The things Edwards says are flat out wrong. You donāt need to be a Beth Moore fan to recognize how foul Edwards is. What a bizarre dichotomy, Beth Moore or Edwards š
The problem with Edwards is that his examples and preaching attacks the character of God.
These strong puritan preachers of long ago had something that ministers such as Beth Moore cannot comprehend ā¦ that is why during there time there was revivals and refromative works in the Church and in society ā¦ we in the West are so backslidden that we have now turned to attack, belittle and talk down of those predeccesors who who mightly used. This is sad but it is the state of the Church today ā¦ no one should be surprised.
Im no BM fan but unless this guy is preaching to a room full of known reprobates or something I would disagree with this too. I havent heard the whole sermon and dont know what scriptures were used so I'll reserve forming an opinion because this may not even be the right context.
The church that Edwards preached this sermon at (and was made famous thereby) was not his own. It was a church that had been passed over by the revival, all the other churches in the region being touched by it, he decided to break the stony hearts that were represented by that congregation. History records that he succeeded and that people cried out. What must I do to be saved? thus it would seem that Beth Moore was not the intended audience of the sermon, and Edwards himself would commend the idea of tailoring oneās gospel message based on the audience. It would seem that Beth Mooreās critique is empty, because the author of the sermon did not tailor it toward broken spirits and contrite hearts but rather hard hearts
On Spiders: Beth, Moore, and Jonathan Edwards have this alike. Both liked spiders. One of the most beautiful pieces of colonial scientific work is Edwardsā āspider letterā I imagine the Edwardsā love for spiders for exceeds Mrs. Mooreās
I have listed to Jonathan Edwards works for a long time now. They are rich and beautiful, including Sinners in the Hands of an angry God. I find this sermon very helpful to remind me that I was called to live a holly life. But many preachers nowadays want to preach a gospel of love, riches, and comfortable ways. They want to exclude the holiness, sovereign, and wrath of God. You did an awesome approach to her comments.
Not sure how God could hate sinners and yet send his only son to die a horrible death to give sinners a chance at redemption. Would you sacrifice your son to save someone you hate?
Dr. Everhard, that is a very gracious response. I went to college in the Northampton, MA area. I was a youth director during college at a UCC church, so I have always had an interest in all things Jonathan Edwards. I just ordered your book. I ended up in the PCA, and some of the churches did offer Beth Moore Bible Studies. I never understood why. š
this is a great reminder to Christiansā¦ the Bible reveals to us an awe-full Godā¦ the fullness of His glory is overwhelmingā¦ today, we only want an awe-some Godā¦ just a little bit of the magic to make our lives more palatable is good enoughā¦ a little sprinkling of fairy dustā¦ be warned!
I went to a Beth Moore Bible Study once years ago, and I wasnāt thrilled. Needless to say, Iāve never been a Beth Moore fan since then. Iām glad to hear that your church doesnāt use her things. She isnāt the smartest book in the pile.
Sadly this failure in Bible āstudyā is prevalent, proof texting to affirm a presuppositionā¦your advice to BM and others is valuable. Thanks much, I appreciate your videos
Beth needs to read and believe the Bible much more. If she read the old testament , I wonder what she would think of God Almighty, who is sovereign over heaven and earth. š®
Here is a problem with her words " that there was something worth to be savingā¦.that's the point. We are worthless, useless for God by ourselves. Defiled, wicked, gross, abhorrent.
But the loving gracious God came down to earth, gave Himself up to be beaten and killed by this rebellious rabble, in order to purchase our redemption from sin and death onto Himself.
He bought the most worthless thing, with the most precious I'm thing in the universe. His sons own life. That's the point of the gospel.
We are completely worthless, but God still loves us.
She's a very haphazard person so this would be status quo for her.
I am not shocked at all she doesn't understand Edwards lol
Gotta admit ā the title was clickbait: What fellowship hath Edwards with Beth??
Such a gracious response. It would have been so easy to just slam her but you handled it with love, clarity, and truthfulness.
Yep, I regularly say, "You should not read SITHOAAG unless you follow it up with 'Heaven, a World of Love.'"
To be honest, I had now idea who Beth Moore is, until I saw this video.
Beth Moore the kinda person to read Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God and write off Edwards' teachings- but won't read "Heaven, a World of Love"
Awesome! I was waiting for this video to drop ;p
For anyone to attend to BM's criticism of the brilliant JE is pathetic.
Beth Moore is a practical Bible teacherā¦a theologian she is notā¦she must have been looking for something to get her name trendingā¦American Christianity what you gonna do smh
This couldāve been a much easier response video. Sheās a lost soul. Done. But I do appreciate you helping those who may have needed help understanding why sheās wrong.
Psalm 5 is a great example of God hating the wicked. I remember seeing that and saying similar things to Beth, and the Scripture was jaw dropping. If our system destroys our ability to speak biblically with language God uses about his own attitudes toward sinners, then we need repentance.
All your points are valid, but isn't it also true that for this sermon he changed his style after hearing George Whitfield, a prominent evangelist at the time?
The sermon can be found at blue letter Bible web site. My issues with Edwards (I'm so not a fan) includes that of pronouns. The 2nd person pronoun, "you" is found 200 times (blue letter word search.) In contrast, in 2 Corinthians Paul uses the first person pronoun, "we" over 100 times. Example:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:"
It's one thing for a preacher to quote Paul in "All have sinnedā¦" and it's quite another thing for that preacher to address the listeners with, "You sinners!" even if it's not an incorrect statement.
As for the statement, ""Pidgeon-holing a person for their most famous or infamous sermon and indeed the most difficult paragraph therein is probably not the fairest reasonā¦"
When I point out that your caricature of deity is less compassionate than I, many on your side try to make it a discussion of fairness ā that (the Calvinistic caricature of) God doesn't have to be "fair." If he were fair we'd all be in hell. So if I'm unfair, then, in a sense, I am godly.
In my library, I owe the works of Jonathan Edwards (2 volume set) and heās one of my heroes (from a layman). I can honestly say this, if Beth Moore were in the hospital, and if she were visited by Jonathan Edwards, Iām pretty sure he would point her to Christā¦ Iām glad I was able to buy his works because heās slowly getting canceled.
Beth says she wants to have a sense that she is "worth saving"! But the whole point Jonathan Edwards is making is in God's sight we are NOT worth saving. Jesus didn't purchase us because we had great value! His severity towards sinful creatures illustrates how great His mercy & grace.
5 minutes to even begin to get to the point?
Although I would not say I am overly fond of Edwards or the Puritans on several counts, your assertion that "Sinners in the hands of an Angry God" is not indicative of Edawards' typical preaching style is quite correct. I have read other sermons of his, and he has much which is very UNLIKE "Sinners in the Handsā¦"
Beth Moore is cherry-picking at best, and Edwards, though his wording is a bit shocking to hear, is essentially correct in that all who are without Christ will perish.
Christianity is severely lacking of proper female bible teachers. I follow almost exclusively male pastors and teachers, I am interested in theology and the deeper things in the bible, that is why I follow this channel. If it is okay for the women of this channel I would like to recommend Suzanne Heck's bible studies "With the Master" she will challenge you. No fuzzy religion, she has been a blessing to me just like this channel. Pastor Everhard always makes his point with such class and Christian compassion that he sets an example for the rest of us. Thank you!
But (when you are a Calvinist), there is no necessity to preach the wrath of God. Those who have been "chosen" for heaven (before the foundation of the world) will automatically be saved without an appropriate sermon. Those whom God has damned (before the foundation of the world) cannot respond to the message anyway being totally "dead in sin." O the joys of Calvinism!
I think you were magnanimous and even handed in your response to Beth Moore, especially considering Jonathan Edwards is your favorite theologian.
Gracious response, good thought's on reading the rest of body of work. Also as a non reformed guy, I really appreciated your tone and could see doing coffee with you and talking theology! š
5:56 That's the problem with Edwards, and other such preachers. They are NOT speaking from Scripture but from their own evil imaginations.
Its like some kid on a junior high basketball team dissing Michael Jordan. "I don't get all the fuss over Jordan. He's not all that."
I would rather be in the hands of an angry God than out of His hands. I needed to be dangled over the fires of Hell to see where I was headed.
I have no problem with the sermon.
So what if people mostly are familiar with the Sinners sermon? The things Edwards says are flat out wrong. You donāt need to be a Beth Moore fan to recognize how foul Edwards is. What a bizarre dichotomy, Beth Moore or Edwards š
The problem with Edwards is that his examples and preaching attacks the character of God.
These strong puritan preachers of long ago had something that ministers such as Beth Moore cannot comprehend ā¦ that is why during there time there was revivals and refromative works in the Church and in society ā¦ we in the West are so backslidden that we have now turned to attack, belittle and talk down of those predeccesors who who mightly used. This is sad but it is the state of the Church today ā¦ no one should be surprised.
Sheās not going to read any of his works, sheās got a vendetta against straight white Christian males.
Im no BM fan but unless this guy is preaching to a room full of known reprobates or something I would disagree with this too. I havent heard the whole sermon and dont know what scriptures were used so I'll reserve forming an opinion because this may not even be the right context.
Because of her theological ignorance and careless handling of Scripture, we removed all of her books and video materials from our church library.
The church that Edwards preached this sermon at (and was made famous thereby) was not his own. It was a church that had been passed over by the revival, all the other churches in the region being touched by it, he decided to break the stony hearts that were represented by that congregation. History records that he succeeded and that people cried out. What must I do to be saved? thus it would seem that Beth Moore was not the intended audience of the sermon, and Edwards himself would commend the idea of tailoring oneās gospel message based on the audience. It would seem that Beth Mooreās critique is empty, because the author of the sermon did not tailor it toward broken spirits and contrite hearts but rather hard hearts
On Spiders: Beth, Moore, and Jonathan Edwards have this alike. Both liked spiders. One of the most beautiful pieces of colonial scientific work is Edwardsā āspider letterā
I imagine the Edwardsā love for spiders for exceeds Mrs. Mooreās
I have listed to Jonathan Edwards works for a long time now. They are rich and beautiful, including Sinners in the Hands of an angry God. I find this sermon very helpful to remind me that I was called to live a holly life. But many preachers nowadays want to preach a gospel of love, riches, and comfortable ways. They want to exclude the holiness, sovereign, and wrath of God. You did an awesome approach to her comments.
Not sure how God could hate sinners and yet send his only son to die a horrible death to give sinners a chance at redemption. Would you sacrifice your son to save someone you hate?
Wasn't J. Edward's involved in the Salem Witch Trials?
Dr. Everhard, that is a very gracious response. I went to college in the Northampton, MA area. I was a youth director during college at a UCC church, so I have always had an interest in all things Jonathan Edwards. I just ordered your book. I ended up in the PCA, and some of the churches did offer Beth Moore Bible Studies. I never understood why. š
Cause fear and then sell the escape. Nothing really new or impressive about his tactics here. It works.
Well done, brother.
this is a great reminder to Christiansā¦ the Bible reveals to us an awe-full Godā¦ the fullness of His glory is overwhelmingā¦ today, we only want an awe-some Godā¦ just a little bit of the magic to make our lives more palatable is good enoughā¦ a little sprinkling of fairy dustā¦ be warned!
Where do we read the sermon that you mentioned. Heaven is a world of Love
I went to a Beth Moore Bible Study once years ago, and I wasnāt thrilled. Needless to say, Iāve never been a Beth Moore fan since then. Iām glad to hear that your church doesnāt use her things. She isnāt the smartest book in the pile.
Look forward to your postās! My husband and I are watching your Revelation series! š šāļø
Sadly this failure in Bible āstudyā is prevalent, proof texting to affirm a presuppositionā¦your advice to BM and others is valuable. Thanks much, I appreciate your videos
Beth needs to read and believe the Bible much more. If she read the old testament , I wonder what she would think of God Almighty, who is sovereign over heaven and earth. š®
Maybe it's because your ignorant of Moore, however since she's a false teacher, your words to her, and talking to her as a Christian, was all in vain.
Less Beth Moore.
Here is a problem with her words " that there was something worth to be savingā¦.that's the point. We are worthless, useless for God by ourselves. Defiled, wicked, gross, abhorrent.
But the loving gracious God came down to earth, gave Himself up to be beaten and killed by this rebellious rabble, in order to purchase our redemption from sin and death onto Himself.
He bought the most worthless thing, with the most precious I'm thing in the universe. His sons own life. That's the point of the gospel.
We are completely worthless, but God still loves us.
An awful lot of throat clearing before getting to the point.
His grandson killed Alexander Hamilton.
JE was the master of fire and brimstone.