Heathers Theatrical release poster Directed by Michael Lehmann Starring Winona Ryder Christian Slater Shannen Doherty …
27 COMMENTS
I would say that Heathers, Pump Up The Volume, and Better Off Dead are the BEST John Hughes films. There's just a catch: John Hughes had nothing to do with them.
These films handle teenage mental health issues brilliantly in ways that aren't preachy.
11:40 Back in the the late 70's or early 80's they probably would just suspend him. By the late 80's, whether they suspend or expel him would depend on whether he was the son of a cop, school administrator, or very wealthy parents. Oh and if he was a star football player, they'd likely choose a punishment that wouldn't affect his chances at college recruitment.
(This comment written before watching the reaction.) Excellent! Thank you for this nostalgic trip down memory lane. In high school, this was a major favorite among my little group of nerds/misfits/geeky outcasts. I had a rough day and this should be a nice antidote. 😊
Screenwriter Daniel Waters originally intended for Stanley Kubrick (The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey) to direct Heathers, due to his love of Kubrick's nuclear black comedy, Dr. Strangelove. Waters wanted Heathers to be a stark contrast to the more optimistic teen movies of the 1908s by John Hughes. Director Michael Lehmann ended up directing Heathers, which went on to win the Independent Spirit Award for Best First Feature, and Waters won the Edgar Allen Poe Award for Best Original Screenplay.
23:58 The stoner girl (one of my all time favorite stoners) was played by Bess Meyer. In the Friends episode "The One Where Ross Dates A Student" she played Chandler's college friend.
what is Triggering about this movie ? Just a fun story people are too UPTIGHT now and that why we have BORING crappy movies that are based in way people really think and talk i saw it in 80's when it came out NO ONE COMPLAINED it was fine and entertaining we must be about same age
The cafeteria scene at the beginning of Heathers was meant to be a homage to the barracks scene at the beginning of Full Metal Jacket, as Daniel Waters originally wanted Stanley Kubrick to direct Heathers. The original ending was very different, with Veronica shooting and killing Jason Dean in the boiler room. Veronica then strapped his bomb to her own body and walked into the gymnasium during the pep rally, blowing herself up, along with all of the students at the rally. The end scene would have been a "prom in heaven," where everyone was drinking from a punch bowl filled with blue liquid similar to drain cleaner, and all of the social outcasts and popular people were dancing with each other, confirming JD's opinion that "the only place that different social types can genuinely get along with each other is in heaven." Standing at the top of the bleachers would be Veronica, looking down at the heavenly prom and smiling. Thankfully, that's not the ending that was made.
37:30 Heathers WAS'NT a popular movie back then. Heathers was a flop when it was released. It gained a cult following on VHS when it was discovered by people (like myself) who were sick to death of the icky-sweet John Hughes-type films that presented High School as a fairy-tale life.
You'll notice that Veronica Sawyer's childhood best friend is Betty Finn, whom Veronica has abandoned for the Heathers. Their names are references to both Betty and Veronica from Archie Comics, and Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn from the works of Mark Twain.
Heathers was very much a "canary in the coal mine" moment in regards to school bullying.
I have a hypothesis about this:
GenX was the last generation of kids who had a great amount of freedom. We were the "latchkey kids" who had our own keys to the house, and let ourselves in when we got home, as both parents were working. We were basically left to our own devices until the parents came home.
But GenX was also the last generation where physical fighting was not severely punished. Often, fighting would result in a trip to the principal's office for a paddling. Suspensions were rare and expulsions even more so.
Those of us who had been in fights knew that bullying usually stopped once there was a physical fight. We learned "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". Of course that was never true. Verbal abuse has always had extremely damaging effects that are difficult to heal. What was true is that most kids accepted that once there's a fight, the verbal bullying stops. There was always a nuclear option; something you could do when you've had enough.
That stopped during the "stranger danger" child safety moral panic.
Starting in the late 1960's, late night news programs began starting their broadcast with "It's 10 PM. Do you know where your children are?" But what really got the panic going were milk cartons.
There were some highly publicized child abductions in the early 70's and 80's. So, dairy companies started printing the faces and details of missing children on the old cardboard milk cartons. Suddenly, you had massive amounts of parents sitting at the breakfast table seeing the faces of missing children, or seeing the faces of missing children as they poured milk into their own children's cereal bowls.
This began a wave of child safety changes. Driving kids to and from school instead of riding the bus. Curfew laws. Crackdowns on dangerous child toys. Crackdowns on physical fighting.
By the late 80's, zero-tolerance school policies began appearing. Fighting was no longer an option to stand your ground. Fighting could be punished by expulsion from school.
But there has never been a way to curtail verbal abuse. As long as children interact with other children, there will be verbal bullying. But by the late 80's, the children being bullied were defenseless.
I think the rise of school shootings in the 90's was a direct result of those policies. The nuclear option was gone. All bullied kids had left were doomsday scenarios. If a physical fight was gonna get you expelled and arrested, why not do something truly worthy of being arrested for? And NOTHING stops a bully from bullying you like killing them.
I see J.D. as a foreshadowing of what was to come.
I think this is also why police killings have become such a problem. Some of the post-GenX kids grew up to be police officers. They spent their entire childhoods learning that verbal abuse is the worst thing that can happen to them (which is false). They also grew up in a world where adults were always around to keep them safe. They rarely had to develop the skills of de-escalation.
Yes, police do get training, but a few hours of training each month is not going to unlearn 18 years of childhood experience.
"What is, 'It'll be really very?' Very what?" Well, Belle, screenwriter Daniel Waters created a specific set of slang and style of speech for the film, wanting to ensure that the language in the film would have "timeless" quality instead of just reflecting teen slang at the time. As of 2014, the film was among the most cited in the Oxford English Dictionary.
In the scene where Jason Dean tells Veronica that the gun is loaded with "ich lüge" bullets, it's worth mentioning that "ich lüge" is German for "I lie."
Heathers actually was criticized when it came out for its depiction of teen suicide, but what those critics failed to realize is that no one in the movie actually committed suicide (except for JD, of course). The movie was actually a critique of high school social hierarchy and the culture of cliques, as well as the hypocrisy of a society that often props up the popular kids as models of society when those are often the same kids that make life a living hell for other kids.
Heathers is an absute MUST of teen cinema! Another Christian Slater movie you'll love, is "Pump Up the Volume". Incredible music, compelling story, and it started my appreciation for nerdy, gothy girls. Samantha Mathis is amazing.
Curiosity point: Have you ever seen the cartoon films of Watership Down – 1970s version or new better-graphics on the bunnies (and sticking better to the book, imo)?
This was before Sandy Hook, Columbine or any of that. Gang-related shootings in inner city schools were a problem, but those targeted specific students. Mass shootings were still rare, and were more likely in places like a McDonalds or a post office. ("Going postal" was slang for losing your composure, in reference to how many mass shooters in the 80's and 90's all seemed to be disgruntled postal workers) And it was before cyberbullying. So, at the time, this was broad satire, absurdifying the lengths kids would go to for popularity, and to be the bully rather than the bullied. The level of venom and open public humiliation and physical bullying would vary from school to school, but the idea of outcasts, misfits, or nerds mass-murdering their class was still something only imaginable in a cartoon world, and this movie was supposed to be a cartoonish representation of teen desperation. It's a bit frightening how a lot of the humor hasn't aged well because of how this kind of violence (to others and self-harm) doesn't seem as unimaginable these days. Also notable, this was a low budget indie movie, this was sort of a punk-rock alternative to more mainstream teen comedies from John Hughes and his peers. It was deliberately satirizing and deconstructing movies like "The Breakfast Club" and "16 Candles." As such, it didn't have to be that popular to be a success and wasn't a huge hit at first, but devolped a cult following over time.
I would say that Heathers, Pump Up The Volume, and Better Off Dead are the BEST John Hughes films. There's just a catch: John Hughes had nothing to do with them.
These films handle teenage mental health issues brilliantly in ways that aren't preachy.
11:40 Back in the the late 70's or early 80's they probably would just suspend him. By the late 80's, whether they suspend or expel him would depend on whether he was the son of a cop, school administrator, or very wealthy parents. Oh and if he was a star football player, they'd likely choose a punishment that wouldn't affect his chances at college recruitment.
Oh, how the world has changed…
(This comment written before watching the reaction.) Excellent! Thank you for this nostalgic trip down memory lane. In high school, this was a major favorite among my little group of nerds/misfits/geeky outcasts. I had a rough day and this should be a nice antidote. 😊
Screenwriter Daniel Waters originally intended for Stanley Kubrick (The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey) to direct Heathers, due to his love of Kubrick's nuclear black comedy, Dr. Strangelove. Waters wanted Heathers to be a stark contrast to the more optimistic teen movies of the 1908s by John Hughes. Director Michael Lehmann ended up directing Heathers, which went on to win the Independent Spirit Award for Best First Feature, and Waters won the Edgar Allen Poe Award for Best Original Screenplay.
23:58 The stoner girl (one of my all time favorite stoners) was played by Bess Meyer. In the Friends episode "The One Where Ross Dates A Student" she played Chandler's college friend.
what is Triggering about this movie ? Just a fun story people are too UPTIGHT now and that why we have BORING crappy movies that are based in way people really think and talk i saw it in 80's when it came out NO ONE COMPLAINED it was fine and entertaining we must be about same age
The cafeteria scene at the beginning of Heathers was meant to be a homage to the barracks scene at the beginning of Full Metal Jacket, as Daniel Waters originally wanted Stanley Kubrick to direct Heathers. The original ending was very different, with Veronica shooting and killing Jason Dean in the boiler room. Veronica then strapped his bomb to her own body and walked into the gymnasium during the pep rally, blowing herself up, along with all of the students at the rally. The end scene would have been a "prom in heaven," where everyone was drinking from a punch bowl filled with blue liquid similar to drain cleaner, and all of the social outcasts and popular people were dancing with each other, confirming JD's opinion that "the only place that different social types can genuinely get along with each other is in heaven." Standing at the top of the bleachers would be Veronica, looking down at the heavenly prom and smiling. Thankfully, that's not the ending that was made.
34:47 “Ich lüge” means "I lie" in German.
37:30 Heathers WAS'NT a popular movie back then. Heathers was a flop when it was released. It gained a cult following on VHS when it was discovered by people (like myself) who were sick to death of the icky-sweet John Hughes-type films that presented High School as a fairy-tale life.
About the Ich luge bullets – "Ich luge" is German for "I'm lying".
Belle, I had a thing for Winona Ryder ever since this movie! You know what I mean?
30:34 Ich lüge means "I'm lying."
OK, we need to end this absurd prejudice against BBQ corn nuts!!!
You are really responsible with the help line phone numbers.
You'll notice that Veronica Sawyer's childhood best friend is Betty Finn, whom Veronica has abandoned for the Heathers. Their names are references to both Betty and Veronica from Archie Comics, and Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn from the works of Mark Twain.
I think I like Belle at 31:35 the most.
Heathers was very much a "canary in the coal mine" moment in regards to school bullying.
I have a hypothesis about this:
GenX was the last generation of kids who had a great amount of freedom. We were the "latchkey kids" who had our own keys to the house, and let ourselves in when we got home, as both parents were working. We were basically left to our own devices until the parents came home.
But GenX was also the last generation where physical fighting was not severely punished. Often, fighting would result in a trip to the principal's office for a paddling. Suspensions were rare and expulsions even more so.
Those of us who had been in fights knew that bullying usually stopped once there was a physical fight. We learned "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". Of course that was never true. Verbal abuse has always had extremely damaging effects that are difficult to heal. What was true is that most kids accepted that once there's a fight, the verbal bullying stops. There was always a nuclear option; something you could do when you've had enough.
That stopped during the "stranger danger" child safety moral panic.
Starting in the late 1960's, late night news programs began starting their broadcast with "It's 10 PM. Do you know where your children are?" But what really got the panic going were milk cartons.
There were some highly publicized child abductions in the early 70's and 80's. So, dairy companies started printing the faces and details of missing children on the old cardboard milk cartons. Suddenly, you had massive amounts of parents sitting at the breakfast table seeing the faces of missing children, or seeing the faces of missing children as they poured milk into their own children's cereal bowls.
This began a wave of child safety changes. Driving kids to and from school instead of riding the bus. Curfew laws. Crackdowns on dangerous child toys. Crackdowns on physical fighting.
By the late 80's, zero-tolerance school policies began appearing. Fighting was no longer an option to stand your ground. Fighting could be punished by expulsion from school.
But there has never been a way to curtail verbal abuse. As long as children interact with other children, there will be verbal bullying. But by the late 80's, the children being bullied were defenseless.
I think the rise of school shootings in the 90's was a direct result of those policies. The nuclear option was gone. All bullied kids had left were doomsday scenarios. If a physical fight was gonna get you expelled and arrested, why not do something truly worthy of being arrested for? And NOTHING stops a bully from bullying you like killing them.
I see J.D. as a foreshadowing of what was to come.
I think this is also why police killings have become such a problem. Some of the post-GenX kids grew up to be police officers. They spent their entire childhoods learning that verbal abuse is the worst thing that can happen to them (which is false). They also grew up in a world where adults were always around to keep them safe. They rarely had to develop the skills of de-escalation.
Yes, police do get training, but a few hours of training each month is not going to unlearn 18 years of childhood experience.
"What is, 'It'll be really very?' Very what?" Well, Belle, screenwriter Daniel Waters created a specific set of slang and style of speech for the film, wanting to ensure that the language in the film would have "timeless" quality instead of just reflecting teen slang at the time. As of 2014, the film was among the most cited in the Oxford English Dictionary.
In the scene where Jason Dean tells Veronica that the gun is loaded with "ich lüge" bullets, it's worth mentioning that "ich lüge" is German for "I lie."
Hey Sinister Southern Belle! This movie is a absolute classic. I loved the reaction girl!🥰🤙🏾
"This is the 1980s version of 'Mean Girls,' isn't it?"
Nope. Mean Girls is the 2000s version of Heathers. 😜
Heathers actually was criticized when it came out for its depiction of teen suicide, but what those critics failed to realize is that no one in the movie actually committed suicide (except for JD, of course). The movie was actually a critique of high school social hierarchy and the culture of cliques, as well as the hypocrisy of a society that often props up the popular kids as models of society when those are often the same kids that make life a living hell for other kids.
Heathers is an absute MUST of teen cinema! Another Christian Slater movie you'll love, is "Pump Up the Volume". Incredible music, compelling story, and it started my appreciation for nerdy, gothy girls. Samantha Mathis is amazing.
Curiosity point: Have you ever seen the cartoon films of Watership Down – 1970s version or new better-graphics on the bunnies (and sticking better to the book, imo)?
This was before Sandy Hook, Columbine or any of that. Gang-related shootings in inner city schools were a problem, but those targeted specific students. Mass shootings were still rare, and were more likely in places like a McDonalds or a post office. ("Going postal" was slang for losing your composure, in reference to how many mass shooters in the 80's and 90's all seemed to be disgruntled postal workers)
And it was before cyberbullying. So, at the time, this was broad satire, absurdifying the lengths kids would go to for popularity, and to be the bully rather than the bullied. The level of venom and open public humiliation and physical bullying would vary from school to school, but the idea of outcasts, misfits, or nerds mass-murdering their class was still something only imaginable in a cartoon world, and this movie was supposed to be a cartoonish representation of teen desperation. It's a bit frightening how a lot of the humor hasn't aged well because of how this kind of violence (to others and self-harm) doesn't seem as unimaginable these days.
Also notable, this was a low budget indie movie, this was sort of a punk-rock alternative to more mainstream teen comedies from John Hughes and his peers. It was deliberately satirizing and deconstructing movies like "The Breakfast Club" and "16 Candles." As such, it didn't have to be that popular to be a success and wasn't a huge hit at first, but devolped a cult following over time.
I stopped watching on the "How was this a popular movie back then? This is just weird and demented." comment.
"Jacked up"? Nah, this is high-larious. Your tastes are a little too wholesome.