We ARE making sci-fi stories with these themes Michael, as you outline in the Q&A/Superchats. At least some of us are. A good friend of mine is making a short like this. I'm happy to be a part of it with him in music and sound design, promotion, and other areas, and he and I did an interview with him about all of these things you've been discussing. Shooting just started. It's a faith focused, sci-fi, steampunk/dieselpunk story of a religious man's journey to true saving faith. We are very excited and hope to see more come of it when it's done!
I will always think that the Godfather part I, Shawshank Redemption, the Departed, and Rocky I are simply the best movies ever created. I just can't help it. You need to watch at least one of them.
Loving this presentation – one of the things I hated about the Christian hysteria about Harry Potter when the books were at their height of popularity, was they entirely missed the many, many Christian principles and themes woven all through the series. So focused on "oh no, witchcraft!!!!" that they ignored the very strong Christian underpinnings. Strangely, many of the people objecting to magic in HP had no issues with magic in Narnia / LOTR. Odd, that.
One thing that bothers me about so many modern Christian says that they are pop-culturally illiterate. They’re completely clueless about movies or TV and that’s they come across as extremely irrelevant.
Re 51:18 — my experience on the set was fantastic, and I also saw the directors’ cut last summer. It definitely has many of the points you mentioned — the protagonists (hippies) are most certainly morally neutral, and Kelsey Grammer does such a good job of portraying Chuck Smith as this pastor who needs to be persuaded to let people in. That’s by far the one thing Jesus Revolution gets right. As for the other things, you mentioned, covering them would give away too many spoilers.
“Knowing”, another nick cage movie, is an amazing accidental-Christian movie. The marketing for it was so off that I’m sure no one ever watched it though
The thing is, the values you should be celebrating in your movie don't have to have any reference to Christ because even non-Christians can recognize the value of forgiveness, love, respect, trust, self-sacrifice, and even chastity. Christian values are good values and I don't think we should force non-Christians to become Christian in order to adopt these values. And yes, I believe bringing people to Christ is more important than the values ultimately, but you're going to have an easier time bringing someone to Christ if they already share your values and the argument is merely metaphysical.
Oh, and by the way, that does not mean writing totally-virtuous Christian characters that do no wrong. Everyone is flawed and fallen and no one is perfect, this is one of the most important messages of the Bible. It's also one of the reasons people seek out religion in the first place, because they realize they've been living imperfect, flawed lives. The big reason people adopt agnosticism now is that they don't see the value in religion. Why should they? They've likely never had a moment of introspection, or they believe they haven't done anything that bad. Show "good" characters struggling with even the simplest of flaws like gossip or fibbing and how that can balloon into life-destroying madness, that'll make heads turn. Having a good little Mary Sue beat an irredeemable bad guy won't.
One recent Christian movie of note that I did really like was the film "Risen". It covered the events after the Resurrection via a Roman Centurion investigating it, and it never really comes off as preachy, and the ending as to whether the man in question actually converts or not as a result of pondering what he witnessed is left ambiguous. It's not exactly top-tier cinema, and clearly a budget title, but it's shot well, and the writing and performances are good.
Also really been loving The Chosen as another example of well-done Christian media.
While I agree that movies need to be more subtle with their message and prioritize having a good story first, I disagree with your conclusion that there should be no distinction between Christian and non-Christian movies. I think movies that have Christian messages should be more easily identifiable as such and stand out from the crowd rather than simply adapt more or less common-sense ideas and claim to be Christian. Otherwise, how is your story going to be any different from your average secular story? Having Savior-type characters is not necessary a Christian concept, and will not necessarily make a story Christian. However, forgiving, loving your enemies, and praying for those who persecute you I would argue is something that is much more exclusive to Christianity and you wouldn't find in most secular stories. In my view, that reason Christianity has always stood out as a faith is because it has always been counter-cultural. Every culture on earth that has adapted Christianity has always changed drastically. I believe the same should be the case with Christian media and stories. They should be subtle with their messaging, yes, but at the same time, the message ought to be counter-cultural, to the point where it stands out as something you would only see in a Christian movie.
Could you also look at the story of the Middle-Earth games. Because to many people of my generation that is possibly one of the biggest mediums for the Tolkien universe.
Also in terms of movies Hacksaw Ridge is probably one of the best ways to do a out and open Christian movie.
They should try making movies with actual moral dilemmas and tests of faith. I'd pay to see a modern update on Jephthah's daughter. Heck, christianists have a problem that being treating others as they wish to be treated will cost them riches on earth, or as these people say, "get woke, go broke."
God's Not Dead series is not terrible as far as the genre of Christploitation films go. Contrived plot, obvious enemies, victorious resolution. No one really believes that the characters are Christians, they are just a caricature of a type. Make any of these movies with Will Ferrell without changing a word of dialogue and you'll see just how devoid of any message these movies are.
@9:48 You are just straight up lying about fear of immigrants not being timeless and somehow unrelatated. The US alone has gone through waves of fearing Chinese, Mexican, Irish, Italian, and Eastern European. I'll just drop in a reminder about Matthew 25:35-40 and Luke 10:25:37. American's love to ignore that the lesson your "neighbor" in "love your neighbor" is not your fellow countryman, but your foreign enemy.
I always thought Inherit the Wind was Christian. It was at it's heart a debate about what is Christian. Is evolution consistent with Christianity? One group of Christians said yes, but if you ask a fundamentalist, they'll tell you that science is the work of the devil. If nothing else it should serve as a warning about christianists like Ron DeSantis
Modern politics don’t necessarily have to be kept out of a good work of art. C.S Lewis certainly did this, perhaps most obviously in “That Hideous Strength,” and in the rest of the space trilogy. A current show with current political messaging woven into the narrative is Arcane. Despite its promotion of certain unchristian cultural trends, its well worth a watch. Can’t wait for season 2.
Christian movies are always about suffering and loss, they don't explore the glorious life after Ressurections. Why hasn't a Christian movie maker made a candid movie about Isaac Newton or Robert Boyle, all great Believing scientists, the latter, father of modern chemistry who spent most of his wealth funding Bible translations and Missionary works.
I’m so so sad I missed this live! I’m a faith-based filmmaker who shares a lot of the same qualms about Christian films as you do.
I unfortunately just made a short film that felt so corny. I’m practically marketing it as a kids’ short film because I don’t see any real hope for it. It’s disappointing to put money and fantastic talent and resources into something where I could not have as much control over the story as I would have liked. I really tried to encourage the writing team to create something metaphysical (it was a competition and the story had to be based on a specific theme and genre), only to be told that my ideas and thoughts aren’t explicit or clear enough to make sense to the audience-despite being affirmed that the ideas I had were very clear to those not involved in the project. It’s a little frustrating, as someone who wants to make good films and is actively putting money and effort into them, when others around me in Christian creative circles don’t see what secular creatives see inherently.
I don’t want to make non-faith films because that’s my personal choice (as a producer), but I honestly am real exhausted by fighting for good films and hoping they come out good. I’ve only just really started my career, I don’t know how long I can fight for making good films if this is going to be what I’m up against 99% of the time. It’s quite the conundrum, that boogeyman that is the Christian film industry.
I loved the recent Guillermo del Toro's "Pinocchio", even though he is an atheist and lapsed Catholic, his version of Pinnochio was perhaps the most Biblical and Christian-themed film I have seen in a while, as well as one of the most authentic films I have seen too. Both the Woodsprite and Death both have massive Seraphim angel vibes (especially the Woodsprite). The place where Pinnochio appears after dying a couple of times in the film very much resembles Purgatory. Going to Church is very important for Geppetto, even after losing Carlo, his biological son. And he eventually finishes the giant wooden Crucifix that had been bombed in WWI (which also killed his aforementioned son. And Pinnochio is excited about going to Church (even defying Geppetto's command not to go).
The priest character, while being depicted as being somewhat in bed with the 1930s Italian fascist state, is doing it more out of "go along to get along" and is for the most part depicted as a kind and helpful man. Unlike the depiction of the evil priest in the dinner scene of "Pan's Labyrinth" (another Guillermo del Toro film), who is very enthusiastic about the Falangist regime killing the opponents of the Francoist state…
Talk about pushing agenda who's pushing their idea and promoting their lifestyle to almost everyone including the kids, it's not just christians pushing it be fair to both sides.
The movie "The Best of Enemies" is a drama movie about Ku Klux Klan leader C. P. Ellis and Civil Rights activist Ann Atwater as they were working together on the issue of school integration- as has become an issue with the local schooling. I found this to be an oddly Christian film in this context. It's based on a true story.
(And not just because they were both Christian).
Spoilers.
It's been awhile since I've seen it so I am drawing a bit of a blank, but there was this underlying theme of a sinful, fallen world with sinful people as well as that loving your neighbor can be a powerful thing. One major scene in the film was of Ellis' son (in a home; he has down syndrome) being placed in a room with a kid that's loud and scaring him but Ellis is unable to have him moved to a different room. Ann silently goes to the facility and asks for a favor from the secretary to have him be moved.
I find the movie Christian because we see C.P.Ellis, a vehement racist, slowly begin to change his racial views as he starts to understand Mrs.Atwater and the other African Americans around him. By the end of the film, the racist Klanmembers in the community hate Ellis for voting in favor of integration and make him a pariah, but the African Americans in the community emphasize forgiveness towards him and helped him in the end.
"Remember, the same God that made you, also made me" was a quote from the movie I liked.
I agree with everything you've said except about Princess Bride. I woulkd rather gouge my eyes than see that movie plus i cannot stand Carl Elwes 😉
We ARE making sci-fi stories with these themes Michael, as you outline in the Q&A/Superchats. At least some of us are. A good friend of mine is making a short like this. I'm happy to be a part of it with him in music and sound design, promotion, and other areas, and he and I did an interview with him about all of these things you've been discussing. Shooting just started. It's a faith focused, sci-fi, steampunk/dieselpunk story of a religious man's journey to true saving faith. We are very excited and hope to see more come of it when it's done!
Rumor has it that Martin Scorsese will be directing the “Inspiring Philosophy” movie coming in 2024
I will always think that the Godfather part I, Shawshank Redemption, the Departed, and Rocky I are simply the best movies ever created. I just can't help it. You need to watch at least one of them.
Hey Mike, I loved this entire stream and I'm wondering, do you have any plans to create your own stories whether in book or movie form?
Les Miserables!
Bro i just realized why i like @InspiringPhilosophy…… He is the Christian Tim Pool
They should make a Game of Thrones-style 1st and 2nd Kings
Stories about the lives of Saints I find pretty good typically. Get a real life story and tell it dramatically.
Loving this presentation – one of the things I hated about the Christian hysteria about Harry Potter when the books were at their height of popularity, was they entirely missed the many, many Christian principles and themes woven all through the series. So focused on "oh no, witchcraft!!!!" that they ignored the very strong Christian underpinnings. Strangely, many of the people objecting to magic in HP had no issues with magic in Narnia / LOTR. Odd, that.
Watch Birches from 2019, very good movie, I liked it.
One thing that bothers me about so many modern Christian says that they are pop-culturally illiterate. They’re completely clueless about movies or TV and that’s they come across as extremely irrelevant.
You should review the Little light studios, and some of the entertainment they call satanic.
Re 51:18 — my experience on the set was fantastic, and I also saw the directors’ cut last summer. It definitely has many of the points you mentioned — the protagonists (hippies) are most certainly morally neutral, and Kelsey Grammer does such a good job of portraying Chuck Smith as this pastor who needs to be persuaded to let people in. That’s by far the one thing Jesus Revolution gets right. As for the other things, you mentioned, covering them would give away too many spoilers.
“Knowing”, another nick cage movie, is an amazing accidental-Christian movie. The marketing for it was so off that I’m sure no one ever watched it though
The thing is, the values you should be celebrating in your movie don't have to have any reference to Christ because even non-Christians can recognize the value of forgiveness, love, respect, trust, self-sacrifice, and even chastity. Christian values are good values and I don't think we should force non-Christians to become Christian in order to adopt these values. And yes, I believe bringing people to Christ is more important than the values ultimately, but you're going to have an easier time bringing someone to Christ if they already share your values and the argument is merely metaphysical.
Oh, and by the way, that does not mean writing totally-virtuous Christian characters that do no wrong. Everyone is flawed and fallen and no one is perfect, this is one of the most important messages of the Bible. It's also one of the reasons people seek out religion in the first place, because they realize they've been living imperfect, flawed lives. The big reason people adopt agnosticism now is that they don't see the value in religion. Why should they? They've likely never had a moment of introspection, or they believe they haven't done anything that bad. Show "good" characters struggling with even the simplest of flaws like gossip or fibbing and how that can balloon into life-destroying madness, that'll make heads turn. Having a good little Mary Sue beat an irredeemable bad guy won't.
What about the Prince of Egypt?
One recent Christian movie of note that I did really like was the film "Risen". It covered the events after the Resurrection via a Roman Centurion investigating it, and it never really comes off as preachy, and the ending as to whether the man in question actually converts or not as a result of pondering what he witnessed is left ambiguous. It's not exactly top-tier cinema, and clearly a budget title, but it's shot well, and the writing and performances are good.
Also really been loving The Chosen as another example of well-done Christian media.
Paul, Apostle of Christ was really good! And so was The Book of Eli!
I remember reading that the parable of the 10 Minas is actually about Herod
I enjoyed The Encounter (2011)
While I agree that movies need to be more subtle with their message and prioritize having a good story first, I disagree with your conclusion that there should be no distinction between Christian and non-Christian movies. I think movies that have Christian messages should be more easily identifiable as such and stand out from the crowd rather than simply adapt more or less common-sense ideas and claim to be Christian. Otherwise, how is your story going to be any different from your average secular story?
Having Savior-type characters is not necessary a Christian concept, and will not necessarily make a story Christian. However, forgiving, loving your enemies, and praying for those who persecute you I would argue is something that is much more exclusive to Christianity and you wouldn't find in most secular stories.
In my view, that reason Christianity has always stood out as a faith is because it has always been counter-cultural. Every culture on earth that has adapted Christianity has always changed drastically. I believe the same should be the case with Christian media and stories. They should be subtle with their messaging, yes, but at the same time, the message ought to be counter-cultural, to the point where it stands out as something you would only see in a Christian movie.
Could you also look at the story of the Middle-Earth games. Because to many people of my generation that is possibly one of the biggest mediums for the Tolkien universe.
Also in terms of movies Hacksaw Ridge is probably one of the best ways to do a out and open Christian movie.
They should try making movies with actual moral dilemmas and tests of faith. I'd pay to see a modern update on Jephthah's daughter. Heck, christianists have a problem that being treating others as they wish to be treated will cost them riches on earth, or as these people say, "get woke, go broke."
God's Not Dead series is not terrible as far as the genre of Christploitation films go. Contrived plot, obvious enemies, victorious resolution. No one really believes that the characters are Christians, they are just a caricature of a type. Make any of these movies with Will Ferrell without changing a word of dialogue and you'll see just how devoid of any message these movies are.
@9:48 You are just straight up lying about fear of immigrants not being timeless and somehow unrelatated. The US alone has gone through waves of fearing Chinese, Mexican, Irish, Italian, and Eastern European. I'll just drop in a reminder about Matthew 25:35-40 and Luke 10:25:37. American's love to ignore that the lesson your "neighbor" in "love your neighbor" is not your fellow countryman, but your foreign enemy.
I always thought Inherit the Wind was Christian. It was at it's heart a debate about what is Christian. Is evolution consistent with Christianity? One group of Christians said yes, but if you ask a fundamentalist, they'll tell you that science is the work of the devil. If nothing else it should serve as a warning about christianists like Ron DeSantis
Modern politics don’t necessarily have to be kept out of a good work of art. C.S Lewis certainly did this, perhaps most obviously in “That Hideous Strength,” and in the rest of the space trilogy. A current show with current political messaging woven into the narrative is Arcane. Despite its promotion of certain unchristian cultural trends, its well worth a watch. Can’t wait for season 2.
@11:30 Jesus' parables were not obviously Christian? I think we may have identified a small problem.
No mention of Star Wars.
Christian movies are always about suffering and loss, they don't explore the glorious life after Ressurections. Why hasn't a Christian movie maker made a candid movie about Isaac Newton or Robert Boyle, all great Believing scientists, the latter, father of modern chemistry who spent most of his wealth funding Bible translations and Missionary works.
I’m so so sad I missed this live! I’m a faith-based filmmaker who shares a lot of the same qualms about Christian films as you do.
I unfortunately just made a short film that felt so corny. I’m practically marketing it as a kids’ short film because I don’t see any real hope for it. It’s disappointing to put money and fantastic talent and resources into something where I could not have as much control over the story as I would have liked. I really tried to encourage the writing team to create something metaphysical (it was a competition and the story had to be based on a specific theme and genre), only to be told that my ideas and thoughts aren’t explicit or clear enough to make sense to the audience-despite being affirmed that the ideas I had were very clear to those not involved in the project. It’s a little frustrating, as someone who wants to make good films and is actively putting money and effort into them, when others around me in Christian creative circles don’t see what secular creatives see inherently.
I don’t want to make non-faith films because that’s my personal choice (as a producer), but I honestly am real exhausted by fighting for good films and hoping they come out good. I’ve only just really started my career, I don’t know how long I can fight for making good films if this is going to be what I’m up against 99% of the time. It’s quite the conundrum, that boogeyman that is the Christian film industry.
I loved the recent Guillermo del Toro's "Pinocchio", even though he is an atheist and lapsed Catholic, his version of Pinnochio was perhaps the most Biblical and Christian-themed film I have seen in a while, as well as one of the most authentic films I have seen too. Both the Woodsprite and Death both have massive Seraphim angel vibes (especially the Woodsprite). The place where Pinnochio appears after dying a couple of times in the film very much resembles Purgatory. Going to Church is very important for Geppetto, even after losing Carlo, his biological son. And he eventually finishes the giant wooden Crucifix that had been bombed in WWI (which also killed his aforementioned son. And Pinnochio is excited about going to Church (even defying Geppetto's command not to go).
The priest character, while being depicted as being somewhat in bed with the 1930s Italian fascist state, is doing it more out of "go along to get along" and is for the most part depicted as a kind and helpful man. Unlike the depiction of the evil priest in the dinner scene of "Pan's Labyrinth" (another Guillermo del Toro film), who is very enthusiastic about the Falangist regime killing the opponents of the Francoist state…
If anyone reads this, I recommend the film Andre Rublev which centers around a monk. It’s one of Tarkovski’s best works
Talk about pushing agenda who's pushing their idea and promoting their lifestyle to almost everyone including the kids, it's not just christians pushing it be fair to both sides.
The movie "The Best of Enemies" is a drama movie about Ku Klux Klan leader C. P. Ellis and Civil Rights activist Ann Atwater as they were working together on the issue of school integration- as has become an issue with the local schooling. I found this to be an oddly Christian film in this context. It's based on a true story.
(And not just because they were both Christian).
Spoilers.
It's been awhile since I've seen it so I am drawing a bit of a blank, but there was this underlying theme of a sinful, fallen world with sinful people as well as that loving your neighbor can be a powerful thing. One major scene in the film was of Ellis' son (in a home; he has down syndrome) being placed in a room with a kid that's loud and scaring him but Ellis is unable to have him moved to a different room. Ann silently goes to the facility and asks for a favor from the secretary to have him be moved.
I find the movie Christian because we see C.P.Ellis, a vehement racist, slowly begin to change his racial views as he starts to understand Mrs.Atwater and the other African Americans around him. By the end of the film, the racist Klanmembers in the community hate Ellis for voting in favor of integration and make him a pariah, but the African Americans in the community emphasize forgiveness towards him and helped him in the end.
"Remember, the same God that made you, also made me" was a quote from the movie I liked.